I guess this is where I go

[hawk]

More experienced at working out you say? I still have many questions though.
The pilates is so important. Everytime I lift weights, the principles of pilates come into play. The core must be strong during each lift.
Today was lower body weights. I spend about 30 minutes warm up on a tread mill. My right leg has RSD. The pain is nauseating on the treadmill. If I don't do the treadmill first, then I cannot do calf raises without charley horses in my right calf with each calf raise.
I spoke to my doctor last week about what I was doing and he still has no knowledge of RSD and what causes it or what helps it. So I am blindly hoping that what I am doing is not going to cause harm.When I squat my right calf feels the size of a basketball. There is weakness there as when lowering into a bath, the leg does not want to go slowly and sometimes I fall in. The pain causes it . It is hard to work past the pain. My calves are still the same size .16 inches. There is no swelling.
Anyone have any knowledge?

[Shadow]

Yes, Lynn, this is the home of the more advanced and experienced exercisers, so you've found the right place :) .

Core strength is so very important but unfortunately it is an extremely overlooked part of fitness. You are absolutely right - it is the core that is used in every day life and in all exercise.

What is RSD? I'm afraid all my brain cylinders aren't connecting here today :rolleyes: .

Anyway, you have come to the right place and hopefully soon Gabe or someone more experienced will chime in. In the meantime, I'll do some searching and see if I can come up with anything :) .

[hawk]

I Posted a question about RSD on the health issues. It is Reflex Sympathetic Dystophy. When you get an injury the nerve damage causes the sympathetic nerves to wack out and they go insane. The pain after the broken leg healed was worse then the pain of the broken leg. The spasming and hypersensative nerves cause excruciating pain. My foot feels like I am walking on broken glass when I walk on soft carpet. When I put a shoe on it feels like I broke my foot all over again. The blood flow is inhibited and my leg gets cold and spasms for oxygen.
I ride an excercycle when that happens. I soak in warm water to heat it up. I wear flip flops instead of shoes when it gets bad. I force it to run on a treadmill . The pain gets so bad I almost throw up. At least I can now force it to work. When I first found out I had it , I could not force myself to walk. I would fall. Kind of like trying to hold your hand to a hot stove. Your sympathetic nerves will react and not let you do it. I had a week long epidural and blocked off my legs for a whole week. I would get up while still numb during the epidural and walk across the room and do calf raises on a low stool. The doctor freaked out. I insisted and by the end of the week I could walk on it. I have forced it to work out. i have a trampoline that helps in the summer. It is really flaring up now and my right shoulder and neck were affected so badly last summer that I almost lost it( my mind) It migrates. Last week my doctor said that not enough is known about it to know if what I am doing is ok. But he said I am better than 99% of his patients. So I am doing what makes sense to me.Somedays though when it flares up, I find it hard to smile or concentrate on fun things to do. Today it hurts really bad. The outside edge of my foot and back of my leg and hamstring.
So I'm looking for help wherever I may find it.

[Gabriel Guzman]

Hi Lynn! Welcome to the board again! (again for the board that is!). How long after the injury did you start exercising the way you describe? Did you go through some kind of physical therapy after the injury? I remember when I broke my hand, I had pain for quite some time and the doctors told me that. The fracture affected quite a few bones in my hand and resulted in a dyslocated wrist, smashed bones and such a big mess inside that they had to cut a lot of tissue and nerves in order to get implant three screws. I went through physical therapy for about 6 weeks doing all kinds of exercises to recover most of the hand's motricity and dexterity and sometimes the pain was just unbelievable.

I don't kow if RSD relates to all kinds of injuries where there is nerve damage to some extent. I couldn't feel anything on the surface of my hand for about 2 years, even though I would feel pain inside.

I attribute my ability to recover my motricity and dexterity to the monitored physical therapy I went through soon after surgery.

Perhaps you are forcing your leg too much at this point and while it needs exercise, the type of movement as well as the range should be professionally monitored. The exercises from physical therapy sessions are not necessarily the same or aimed at the same as the exercises we do to stay in shape.

One thing is for sure, the pain of injury is not the same as the sore feeling of a good workout and it seems that you're having the former. When that kind of pain sets in, continuing with your workout may be more detrimental in the long run. Maybe you might want to consider discussing your condition with a physical therapist.

[LisaS]

interesting topic. after I broke my ankle and had internal fixation on tib & fib - I had some nerve issues too - toes on fire, the shower hitting the surface of my foot was like needles, the lightest touch on the top of my foot felt like fire (like a sunburn) - but that all resolved gradually over a year - except for some residual numbness - but that seems to be getting better too as the nerves heal. Nothing like what it sounds like you are dealing with.

I did look up RSD on the web, and found one thing that cautioned to make sure you could distinguish between RSD pain and inhibitory pain - that is, if it was hurting because you shouldn't do that motion - vs. hurting because it just is going to hurt - and that kind you can and (apparently) should work through. So I guess you have to know your body and know when to ignore the signals and push through and when to stop because it is telling you to stop. This same site was talking about a sympathetic block - and using that so that you could work out and go to PT and gain strength without pain - but it sounded like they were talking about a local nerve block and not an epidural - but the site wasn't that specific in the part I read.

Have you had a referral to a good neurologist and/or pain specialist?

one other thing I read - for lower limb, working out in water was recommended to try.

[Gabriel Guzman]

Core strength is so very important but unfortunately it is an extremely overlooked part of fitness. You are absolutely right - it is the core that is used in every day life and in all exercise.


Absolutely! I think most people just prefer to stay away from doing abdominal exercises. For some obscure reason, some people think they have to necessarily do 500 crunches to strengthen those muscles when what it needs to be done is to be consitent in giving them some workout ALL the time, during EVERY session.

I used to divide my workouts in upper and lower body and now I prefer to think of upper, lower and core. I dont' know if Billie enjoys it but now our routine starts with a short period of warm up doing anything from simple calistennicts to the treadmill or bicycle (very short warm up, usually no more than 5 minutes) and then we do ~ 10 minutes of abs before we start resistance training.

One can exercise the core even while sitting or standing at work. There are some good exercises aime to improve the tension of those muscles and one can do them while sitting, even while waiting for the stop ligth to change.

I can see some interesting discussions in the future!!! ;)

[hawk]

I went to a neurologist at the University of Chicago Hospital. He basically wondered how I could even walk.He was not optimistic and told me I would lose my leg in about 3 years. It was cold and had constant spasms that kept me awake all night. Need less to say. He was not much help.

I had the epedural from a local pain specialist/anesthesiologist at my own inistance after finding out about it on the web. He called around to find out if what I was asking for was appropriate. During that time I began to excersize while under the anesthetic.
I don't have alot of pain if I just walk and do normal activity. It took me six months to walk with out crutches after I broke my leg and foot 4 years ago. I could not force my toes to bend or put weight on them at all.
I had quite alot of phyisical therapy. My leg was also put into a large box with heated crushed
corn cobs that were blown around and hit my leg to desensitize it. That was crazy. I did my own thing like hitting my leg with a hair brush and rubbing it with dfferent textured items, draggin my foot through the grass and walking on stones. I basically abuse it to make it get better.
i just don't know how much to abuse it and how long this will last. The doc in Chicago told my it was forever and no cure.
i don't live in a large town and most of the doctors here do not know the latest. My sister is a nurse in Chicago and actually was the one who diagnosed it.
It's been four years and it still "feels" broken even though it is pretty strong. If the pain went away I could be super human as much as I have worked this thing out.
I wonder what a sympathetic block is. I may research that. thanks. Whenever I work out I tell myself that the pain is phantom. That my leg is healthy and strong. It gets discouraging lately. I don't want to whine, I just want to figure this out and get it over with if that is possible.
who knows

[hawk]

I was taught in my personal training sessions (ACE)working the abs should always be last so that the core is not tired during lifts. When working out upper or lower we train our people to save the abs for last so they are not tired and do not cause injury while doing other lifting. I also work the abs every day. Several times a day, but last while lifting weights.
I have mini sessions in addition to my Every morning work outs at the gym. When ever I use the bathroom which is 10 times a day approx. (drinking almost 1 gallon of water a day) I do 10 push ups, 10 squats, 20 crunches 20 each side obliques 20 reverse crunches, 10 dips.
I mark them on my day planner to keep track. They take a couple minutes. I get alot of comments on my triceps.

[Gabriel Guzman]

I was taught in my personal training sessions (ACE)working the abs should always be last so that the core is not tired during lifts. When working out upper or lower we train our people to save the abs for last so they are not tired and do not cause injury while doing other lifting.


There is really no reason for that, except perhaps if people like to train their abs until they can't move, which is not necessary either to work the abs. When you work on a bench, for example doing bench press with a barbell or dumbbells, the fact that you lean on a bench makes sure that you're not using other muscles to do the exercises. You may have seen some people that arch their backs inward when they bench press... that injures their back and does nothing for their abs. The core is not the main support for the movements with the barbell.

Then again, like Emeril would say, the exercise police may be out there...:D

[Shadow]

Lynn - It certainly doesn't sound like anything I'd want to deal with! My thought was PT, but it seems you've done that. However, was the PT simply for the broken leg and not the RSD? What about another neurologist for a second opinion? On the positive side, even doctors can be wrong. I have a friend that was told by her neurologist that she would be wheelchair bound within a year or two. 5 or 6 years have since passed and while she does use a walker, she is still mobile. It's amazing what the human spirit can do!

Gabe - Oh yes, it is so exciting to see such information here :D ! I look forward to many more great things to come!

LisaS - Good to see you!

[hawk]

I had physical therapy for the RSD specifically. I went beyond what they could do with me. They basically said, that I was doing better than most and could handle my own PT. I have had three opinions. Unless I go to Another state. I live in Indiana and went to Illinois. I spend alot of money and get no answers. So I gave up and began my own research.
A support group in the area for RSD all use lo carb diets and do well. That is when I began to adopt this approach. I did not do well in the support group because the leader was very foul mouthed.I asked them alot of questions and got the basics of what helped the most and got out of there.

[Shadow]

Well, Lynn, it sounds like you're doing everything humanly possible to overcome this! And know what? I believe if anyone can make the most of this situation and survive with flying colors, that person is you!

[LisaS]

do you find that lots of external stimulation helps at all with the RDS? I know for my small pain/sensitivity issues my PT recommended lots of tactile stim - hard massage with lotion, rough rubbing with a towel, even light percussion (slapping) everyday to give the nerves some real stimulus so they'd stop "making it up on their own" (pain / sensitivity).

[hawk]

I abuse my leg often. I write alphabets with my foot and my ankle alot to keep the calf moving. I jump on a trampoline. I get deep massage on it(no matter how much THAT hurts) And it does, My son teaches martial arts and is very strong. He does a number on it. I also kickbox. Hitting a heavy bag with it and doing lunge walking on two inch mats. You are right about the tactile stimulation.
One thing I discovered by accident is that aspartame aggrivates it and causes spasms and throbbing pain the next day and for a few days afterward. It doesn't take much.

[Joli]

Lynn, your perseverance is awe inspiring. If it were me, I would probably have quit long ago.

I've only been working out for about 10 weeks... do I belong here or on the M&S forum? The other day I told the trainer dude at the gym that cruches were not getting the job done for me. I still have a very wide gap in my ab muscles from being pregnant (3 years ago!), and it doesn't seem to be closing. He referred me to the trainer dudette, and promised she would hurt me good. I can't wait! :eek:

In the meantime, I'm doing a 10 minute treadmill warmup and about 80 minutes of resistance on weight machines, 3x a week.

[hawk]

There are a variety of crunches and excersizes that work out various areas of your abs.I do an ab bootcamp so to speak to try and hit all these areas. I also think that hitting a heavy bag helps me. I am currently not in a kickboxing class but there are a number of DVD's that can do the job. Also you cannot spot reduce. I do not know your wieght level. You could have awesome abs underneath a bit of padding.

[Joli]

Well, you've got the "bit of padding" part right.... pretty doubtful about the "awesome abs". Like I said, I've got about a 3-finger split in my ab muscles still, from being pregnant 3 years ago!

I've been doing a 25-count ab vac after my crunches, and I just read online yesterday that that is the best way to close up the gap after pregnancy. So, yesterday I did 10, 10-count ab vacs and this morning my waist is 1/2 inch smaller! Wheeeeee!!!!

[SherryJ]

Joli, refresh my brain on HOW to do an "ab vac"? Pretty please? :)

Sherry

[Shadow]

Joli - It's good to see you! As for where you post, that comes down to where you feel comfortable :). The M's & S's in the Working the Plan forum was basically designed for beginners. This forum was set up for those who have already established a routine. But what it comes down to, is where you like to post ;). IMHO, it's a good idea to visit both forums - with the variety of people and experience we have on board, there's always something that can be learned, right :p?

[Joli]

Joli, refresh my brain on HOW to do an "ab vac"? Pretty please? :)

Sherry

Happy to. :D

You can do this sitting, standing, lying on your back with your knees bent, or kneeling with your hands on the floor. I think lying is probably easiest for us beginners, because gravity helps. :o

Inhale deeply, then exhale, expelling all the air from your lungs. At the same time, pull your ab muscles as tightly against your spine as you can and hold for a count of 10. You should breathe very shallowly while you're counting (don't hold your breath!). Release, take a few deep breaths, and do it again. The article I saw recommended doing 10 in a row, and doing sets throughout the day.