Gall Bladder

[ajackson]

A recent diagnosis of Type II Diabetes has motivated me to return to the PPPlan after drifting away. I have been working with the plan for about a month and have recently had a recurrence of a problem I have had before when trying to lose weight. That is, I have been suffering from back pain in the area of the bottom rib on the right hand side. I had always thought this might be caused by reduction of internal fat stores, perhaps causing the rib and related cartilage, etc. to move about more freely. However, this time I am fairly certain the pain can be traced to the gall bladder. It is a troublesome problem, as it makes exercise (already a challenge given my size and a congenital back issue) difficult or impossible. I have started with the supplementation recommended in the PPLifePlan, however one of the consequences is an increase in fats (Cod Liver Oil, vit e, CoQ10, ALA, etc.) as well as a slight increase in fats due to dietary changes. I expect I will just have to rest until the inflammation in the gall bladder diminishes. however I am interested in learning whether others have experienced this problem and if anyone has discovered any strategies to minimize or overcome it?

[Gaelen]

A recent diagnosis of Type II Diabetes has motivated me to return to the PPPlan after drifting away. I have been working with the plan for about a month and have recently had a recurrence of a problem I have had before when trying to lose weight. That is, I have been suffering from back pain in the area of the bottom rib on the right hand side. I had always thought this might be caused by reduction of internal fat stores, perhaps causing the rib and related cartilage, etc. to move about more freely. However, this time I am fairly certain the pain can be traced to the gall bladder.

First, welcome in, ajackson.

Second, while you're 'fairly certain' that your pain is traceable to your gall bladder, have you actually had a doctor check you out and make that diagnosis? Self-diagnosis by someone who isn't a medical professional can be pretty far off the mark; heck, self-diagnosis in general can be pretty far off the mark! The area you're describing as painful could also indicate issues with the muscles in that area, the nerves, your liver, your right kidney, and/or the bottom lobe of your right lung. It is also a common site for reflected pain from a cardiac event. I had the same pain for about three months while the docs attempted to figure out what was happening...but in my case, the final diagnosis was a LOT more serious than an inflamed gall bladder. So if you've had this pain for awhile and it isn't going away, get thee to a doctor and get it checked out, okay? When you know for sure what's causing the pain, you'll be more successful at resolving it.

It is a troublesome problem, as it makes exercise (already a challenge given my size and a congenital back issue) difficult or impossible. I have started with the supplementation recommended in the PPLifePlan, however one of the consequences is an increase in fats (Cod Liver Oil, vit e, CoQ10, ALA, etc.) as well as a slight increase in fats due to dietary changes.

If you don't know the real diagnosis, exercise is the least of your worries! As for fat consumption issues, I haven't had a gall bladder for about 15 months, and it hasn't caused me any real problems. My fat intake is typically between 50 and 65% of my daily intake. My body was used to that fat intake level, since I'd been doing PP for 3 years when the gall bladder was removed, and that may have helped. That's been my experience; other people may have had to modify their fats intake.

I expect I will just have to rest until the inflammation in the gall bladder diminishes. however I am interested in learning whether others have experienced this problem and if anyone has discovered any strategies to minimize or overcome it?

Again, I wouldn't make any decisions about how to 'treat' your symptoms until you have a confirmed diagnosis from your physician. There's an old saying that a doc who treats himself has a fool for a patient...but it doesn't only apply to docs that self-treat. ;)

Welcome to the forum and back to the plan. I hope your physician will shed more light on the physical condition(s) that are causing the pain.

[Billie]

Medical diagnosis is important indeed.

I had my GB out about 20 years ago and I didn't know how badly I felt. Of course back then I was soaking up the carbs pretty good, I remember on the night before surgery I had mac and cheese! ARGH!

The treatment for GBs nowadays is so much easier, good luck to you, and keep us posted!

[ajackson]

Points well taken. Thanks for your comments.

After an absolutely miserable weekend, the chiropractor with whom I share a reception area in our professional building did an adjustment. As has historically been the case, I had a 99 percent improvement within minutes. I saw my physician the next day and we discussed the situation. It is unlikely any of the more worrysome possibilities (like cardiac issues) because even in the midst of an "attack," I can get the pain to go away virtually completely by immobilizing the area. While the pain was as acute as a kidney stone, having had one once, I can vouch for the fact that nothing, and I mean nothing one can do will affect the intensity of the pain.

I have had experience with gall bladder causing muscular problems in the back 25 years ago. At the time the solution was a supplement called Regenazyme (an ox bile supplement that tricked the body into thinking bile is present and keeping the gall bladder from overreacting.) I can't find Regenazyme anywhere now, must be out of business.

OTOH, the pain went away quite quickly when the adjustment was made, and I don't think the GB recovers that quickly. The frustrating part of it all is, as I observed earlier, I have noticed a direct correlation with dietary change (and consequent weight loss) and the particular back pain I experienced. Kinda make one gunshy about making the changes I know I must make.

[Ottawa]

After an absolutely miserable weekend, the chiropractor with whom I share a reception area in our professional building did an adjustment. As has historically been the case, I had a 99 percent improvement within minutes.

That is amazing that any chiropractic adjustment would alleviate what you described a Gall Bladder problems unless it is some sort of pinched nerve. If it re-occurs you may want to get an ultrasound to check rule out other problems. As well a Chem-Stick could if it is renal related by excess Potein in the urine (healing) or leukocytes (infection).

I saw my physician the next day and we discussed the situation. It is unlikely any of the more worrysome possibilities (like cardiac issues) because even in the midst of an "attack," I can get the pain to go away virtually completely by immobilizing the area. While the pain was as acute as a kidney stone, having had one once, I can vouch for the fact that nothing, and I mean nothing one can do will affect the intensity of the pain.
...
OTOH, the pain went away quite quickly when the adjustment was made, and I don't think the GB recovers that quickly. The frustrating part of it all is, as I observed earlier, I have noticed a direct correlation with dietary change (and consequent weight loss) and the particular back pain I experienced. Kinda make one gunshy about making the changes I know I must make.

I find medical help is best when you go in with a game plan. You explain the problem in detail as well what you think and what you would like to have done.

Initially on Protein Power my blood ph went down since I was way under on making healthy carb choices (lots of veggies & leafy greens) and my water was low and I was over on my protein which wouldn't have mattered if I was taking care of the other two. This increased the formation of kidney stones which was resolved helpfully through a calcium supplement and choosing more leafy greens and other vegetables that raise ph (alkaline).
The other thing that has happened through the weight loss (almost 100 lbs.) is an increase in "shadows" on any ultrasound that I have done. My endocrinologist explained that large weight losses almost always leave denser deposits or calcified "cysts" that gradually diminish but will likely never disappear.

[ajackson]

Thanks for your reply. Since I started to try to improve my health, one of the things I have done is take some supplementation to increase pH. I have had yet another week of troubles. Started with some kind of inflammation in my left foot just to the left of the arch of the left foot. Followed by another bout of back spasms (not as severe as before) to which was added a touch of gout in my right big toe area. I can't help but think that the high frequency of inflammatory problems might be a clue. I did some research online which linked these sorts of inflammatory incidents to uric acid. It linked incidents to weight loss on the basis that excess uric acid can (they say) be stored in fat so, understandably, when the fat is released by the cells, additional uric acid is released as well. They say this overloads an already high uric acid level in some people. This has possibilities. High stress, bad diet, etc, etc, has caused a sudden onset of gout (repeated attacks,) general inflammation, back pain, etc In addition, I have been taking a mild blood pressure pill prescribed by my doctor. I have noticed that the inflammatory incidents seem to be related to reduced water intake and circumstances where I have noticed a dry mouth. From my research, this sort of pain is quite common, particularly in overweight people. I hope I can find a treatment, as it definitely interferes with all efforts at establishing the PPLifeplan and weight loss.

[Gaelen]

I have noticed that the inflammatory incidents seem to be related to reduced water intake and circumstances where I have noticed a dry mouth. From my research, this sort of pain is quite common, particularly in overweight people. I hope I can find a treatment, as it definitely interferes with all efforts at establishing the PPLifeplan and weight loss.

I think you've described what will likely be the most effective treatment...if you're experiencing inflammation which seems to be caused by increased uric acid, then you need to give your body the one thing that will always help filter excess uric acid and return things to normal--plenty of water along with unsweetened natural diuretics like tea or coffee.

[Songwriter]

After years of mysterious bad abdominal pain, I have finally been diagnosed with gall stones. I suppose I will go with the recommendation to remove it but the soonest they can do it is two months away.

I have not been able to pin any pain to what I eat. They were a bit miffed by that but ultrasound confirmed multiple gall stones. I have had several episodes of SEVERE pain lasting 2-7 hours. The last one was really bad a few days ago. Finally, it just went away. We assume that was stone that "passed." I don't know where it passes to but I'm glad it did. That is not fun.

So, I've got to make it for two months. What to eat! Man, it sure is hard to figure out what to eat anymore. About all they tell me is "bland diet." Saying that fatty foods give you trouble. I never noticed any correlation, as I said. No caffeine, no alcohol. I can handle those. But a typical bland diet would be high carb, low fat. If anyone has any insight, let me know.

[Songwriter]

This doesn't really apply, I suppose, to one like me, who already has gallstones... but I came across this Mary Eades blog (http://www.proteinpower.com/drmd_blog/?p=71).

[Songwriter]

Just thought I'd mention this in case it is helpful at all to anyone.

Had the gall bladder surgery last Thursday, so, this is day 7. I don't know what the overall percentages are of how many people can get by with laporoscopic surgery versus radical surgery or whatever they call it where they slice you open... but my surgeon's numbers are that 95% scate through with the easy laporoscopic. Not me. Wouldn't you know it, I was in the dreaded 5%. This has been brutal.

Surgeon said they went in to do laporoscopic but the gall bladder was funky. A very diseased organ, full of scar tissue from multiple previous infections (his words) and that the risk was too great for them not to mess something up tying off everything. That he could have damaged the liver. So, out comes the scalpel. I have a wicked 8" incision. For several days, the pain was most intense. Horrible.

The good news is that I got home night before last and I'm out of that hell hole of a hospital full of crazy people. (The two roommates I had.) And, slowly, I see improvement. Today, pain is bearable. So far, no pain pill today.

I guess if there is any silver lining it is this. I have no idea if anyone will insure someone like me now but if they will, I gotta figure out a way to get SOME kind of minimum insurance. So that I can get a private room rider. I don't ever want to be in that situation again, sharing a room with someone. Both of the guys I got were bad news. No concern for the other fellow. You're stressed enough as it is and certainly don't need to room with someone that will drive you nuts during the day and keep you up all night. Yuck.

Glad to be out. I suppose it will take several weeks.

[Mitra]

Thanks for the update. I hope you're feeling better soon - sorry they had to do it the hard way :(.