Alzheimer's, Coconut Oil and Ketones

[Roadstr]

What do you think about this article (http://www.tampabay.com/news/aging/article879333.ece)?
I was doing some research on coconut oil and came across this article. The medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil are converted to ketones and the ketones fuel the brain. Apparently the ketones in the coconut oil are protective against Alzheimer's.
Of course, ketones are something that we are familiar with on the PP diet.

[nova202]

Im gonna get some, very interesting!

[maxlharris]

I dunno that you need the Coconut oil, as there have been other studies showing that low carbing in general will prevent/slow the advancement of Alzheimers and other dementia style diseases.

Not saying don't take the lime and the coconut, just saying the benefit here is probably from the lack of glucose, not the source of the ketones.

[nova202]

http://coconut-oil-diet.com/coconut_oil_book.html
Here is another interesting link on the virtues of Coconut oil. My problem is I can never tell if it is propoganda or real.
Can anyone share there wisdom on this subject?

[maxlharris]

http://coconut-oil-diet.com/coconut_oil_book.html
Here is another interesting link on the virtues of Coconut oil. My problem is I can never tell if it is propoganda or real.
Can anyone share there wisdom on this subject?
It looks like the Mediterranean Diet, only with Coconut instead of Olive. In some studies, the Med diet has been seen to be nearly as effective as Low Carb. So, could work. But if you are metabolically resistant, I would suggest sticking with LC and working your VCO into that.

[seven100]

Dr Mary Enig and Sally Fallon have a good book about coconut oil called "Eat Fat Lose Fat"....You might give it a glance. They claim that coconut oil supports thyroid function and promotes thermogenisis. True? I have no idea.

I have a tablespoon of coconut oil in my coffee every morning. That is essentially my breakfast...my morning energy drink. I will say that about ten minutes into the drink I feel my body temperature rise in a way that it doesn't with only the coffee. Sometimes I'll even break out into a sweat. I started this a couple of weeks ago when I began to reintroduce fats into my diet. It does have quite a few calories though if that's a concern.

I hope it's OK to mention other books on the forum.

[Roadstr]

I have a relative that tried coconut oil for Alzheimer disease based on the article... it didn't work. I feel somewhat apologetic because it's a disease that one reaches out for a cure and then I give them false hope.

What do you think about this article (http://www.tampabay.com/news/aging/article879333.ece)?
I was doing some research on coconut oil and came across this article. The medium chain triglycerides in coconut oil are converted to ketones and the ketones fuel the brain. Apparently the ketones in the coconut oil are protective against Alzheimer's.
Of course, ketones are something that we are familiar with on the PP diet.

[nova202]

So I wonder if Coconut Oil has any redeaming qualities other than skin care...these false propaganda articles are rampent.

[nova202]

i must admit i enjoy my morning cocnut oil,,,is there any reason for me to keep ingesting it?

[maxlharris]

So, food is not going to cure Alzheimers. You have real damage to tissues and nerves and connections with Alzheimers and other dementia types of brain insult.

What a high fat, low carb diet does do (in theory, and in some lab studies) is to slow the progression of the disease or to prevent it's onset in people who are genetically predisposed (there is a genetic component to dementia style brain insults). So, I'm not saying there is a miracle thing in Coconut oil (I think it has to do with eating fats in general and keeping carbs low) that will heal these braind disorders, but if you are of sound mind and body, it's not going to hurt and it might just keep this disease off you. And if you are in the early stages of these disorders, it's still not going to hurt and it just might keep your functions where they are, rather than allowing them to progress unchecked.

[Roadstr]

I don't know much about Alzheimers, but one thing you said Max is "if you are in early stages...". It's almost impossible to determine if you are in the earliest stages of Alzheimers. When one is aware of something their depth of awareness is limited by the degree of their consciousness. If consciousness is impaired then awareness is limited...anyway here is Stage 1 of Alzheimers...Unimpaired individuals experience no memory problems and none are evident to a health care professional during a medical interview.
My point is you won't know if you are in early stages and even in stage 2 your friends and family will probably notice it before you do.
I'm not trying to discount your observations Max... just making a point because maybe some are not so familiar with this disease.
I enjoy my EVCO for cooking and see no reason to stop using it.

[maxlharris]

If you are concerned about this type of disease,
first, consider your family history. There is a genetic element to it.
Second, read the Brain Trust Program. It's not really a low carb program, more of a low GI program, but easily modified to low carb.

I'd put EVCO in the can't hurt, might help box.
Low carb, wrt degenerative brain diseases, is in the can't hurt, a lot of signs point to it helping box.

Last, as I said, there are strong studies, and reasonably explanations of why it works, that demonstrate that low carb will halt or slow the progression. So, if you think you have it, think you might have it, friends tell you you might have it, or are really worried about it, low carb is probably a good idea. Low carb needs more study on this. EVCO needs more than low carb.

[Roadstr]

I don't think I have it and my friends don't tell me I might have it and I'm really not worried about having it. Why do I feel like I'm on black ice! If I thought low carb would probably be a good idea I would recommend it to my relative. Since there are no studies that low carb is a good idea for Alzheimer sufferers I would not recommend it specifically for that purpuse.
I saw Dr. Oz on Opera and he asked the audience to memorize a number that was displayed. After a commercial break he asked the audience how many remembered the numbers.... then he said that it wasn't so important if they did't recall the numbers sequence... it was more important to recall why they were trying to remember the numbers.
I put exercise (http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20080714/exercise-amps-up-alzheimers-brain) in my "will help" box because it pushes blood into those really small arteries and vessels because of increased pressure to nourish and increase mitochondria which produce precious ATP. I'm all for anything that increase my ability to exercise more effectively. Everything else is just conjecture. Exercise, yep, recommend highly to everyone... even if it does make you fat.

[maxlharris]

Black ice.
Definitely.

On risk:
http://www.webmd.com/alzheimers/news/20050113/do-carbs-calories-affect-alzheimers-risk
Pasinetti's team used mice bred to have an Alzheimer's-like brain disease. When the mice were 3 months old, the researchers divided them into two groups. One group ate a standard rodent diet. The other mice got 30% fewer calories. Calories were trimmed by reducing carbohydrates. Protein, fat, cholesterol (http://www.webmd.com/cholesterol-management/default.htm), vitamins, and minerals were the same in both groups of mice.
After nine months, the mice brains were examined. The low-calorie, low-carb group "almost completely" avoided forming plaque in their brains, say the researchers. The same sort of plaque has been found in deceased Alzheimer's patients' brains.




On methodology for high carb - Alzheimer link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18430992?ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Acquired disturbances of several aspects of cellular metabolism appear pathologically important in sporadic Alzheimer's disease (SAD). Among these, brain glucose utilization is reduced in the early stages of the disease. Hyperinsulinemia, which is a characteristic finding of insulin resistance, results in a central insulin deficit. Insufficient insulin signaling impairs the intricate balance of nitric oxide regulation of the central nervous system. Reduction in central insulin decreases neuronal nitric oxide synthase and increases inducible synthase activity. This, in turn, decreases astrocytic energy substrates and antioxidant supply of neurons. In addition, an increase in peroxynitrite formation impairs redox balance. Hyperleptinemia and glucose excess, which are the other parameters of insulin resistance, may worsen the reduced astrocytic energy supply and the ongoing inflammation via the inhibition of AMP-activated protein kinase (AMPK). Consequently, energy deficit and inflammation in neuronal tissue may cause neurodegeneration of SAD.
That one's a bit technical, but essentially, insulin resistance don't go well with brain function. And you get insulin resistant through a lot of pathways, but eating a lot of carbs is one of the surest.


I like this one too:
http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:Xot5Wo9LEDEJ:www.biomedcentral.com/content/download/xml/1471-2202-9-s2-s16.xml+High+Carbohydrate+Diets+and+Alzheimer%E2%8 0%99s+Disease,%E2%80%9D+Henderson+ST,+Med+Hypothes es,+2004%3B62:689-700&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Abstract
The pathology of Alzheimer's disease (AD) is characterized by cerebral atrophy in frontal, temporal, and parietal regions, with senile plaques, dystrophic neurites, and neurofibrillar tangles within defined areas of the brain. Another characteristic of AD is regional hypometabolism in the brain. This decline in cerebral glucose metabolism occurs before pathology and symptoms manifest, continues as symptoms progress, and is more severe than that of normal aging. Ketone bodies are an efficient alternative fuel for cells that are unable to metabolize glucose or are 'starved' of glucose. AC-1202 is designed to elevate serum ketone levels safely. We previously showed that treatment with AC-1202 in patients with mild-to-moderate AD improves memory and cognition. Treatment outcomes were influenced by apolipoprotein E genotype status. These data suggest that AC-1202 may be an effective treatment for cognitive dysfunction by providing an alternative substrate for use by glucose-compromised neurons.


You could go all AC-1202 (AC-1202 is a medium-chain triglyceride (MCT) that provides a simple and safe method to induce elevated plasma levels of ketone bodies.), or you could make your own ketone bodies. Your choice.


Like I said, Low Carb is in the Won't Hurt, and Probably Helping (with great side effects) box.



Dr. Oz. In some ways, great guy. In others, he's living in the land of his namesake.

This one is LONG and old:
http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/2444


This one is newer. Structure is not as good, but GT has a better arsenal here:
Can't find the video, but here's a transcript.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0710/19/lkl.01.html


I hate to sound like a fringe lunatic, but Oz is kind of like the user friendly establishment guy. When it comes to diet and nutrition, he's the Style Network admiring the Emperor's New Clothes, which he hasn't noticed, don't exist.


On the upside, he's not Dr. Dean Ornish.

[Roadstr]

Behar with a response to Taubes...

BEHAR: Now, you say in your book that exercise doesn't make you lame. You say that sugar is more dangerous than cigarettes. And you say that carbs can cause Alzheimer's.

OZ: I think you're absolutely on target that simple carbs are the biggest health challenge we have in our dietary system right now. I agree with you. But my argument, fundamentally, comes down to the reality that it's not about carbs versus fats versus proteins. It's about healthy fats, healthy carbs...

The friendly establishment guy sounds like he is on solid pavement. The guy that writes a book to say that one thing is responsible for a disease is the guy in the cloths I don't trust!

[maxlharris]

Healthy carbs are this interesting invention.
When Oz talks about Healthy Carbs, he is talking about whole grains (See page 202 of You: On a Diet!) and fruits and vegetables.
When Taubes is talking about carbs, they are all essentially different configurations of sugars, and should be limited. Fruits and vegetables good, whole grains very dubious value.

When Oz talks about healthy fats, he is talking exclusively about unsaturated fats. That would exclude animal based fats (which are typically 40% monounsaturated) and things like coconut oil and palm kernel oil. This from page 202 of You: On a Diet! as well.
Taubes, when he talks about fats, talks about the different saturated fats and the variety of polyunsaturated fats (just as all sat fats are not alike, not all polyunfats are alike... protein power has some material on omega 3 - omega 6 balance, omega 9 consumption, and poly versus mono for health as well.

I won't get into a specific critique of You: On a Diet! but I will suggest that Oz has a diet book out, Taubes has a science book out. Taubes book has 30+ pages of notes and references. Can't find it in Oz online, but I can suggest, fairly safely, that it is based a lot more on Oz's experience as a cardiothoracic surgeon than a massive review of the science of obesity.

I'm not saying that Oprah is a dupe to have Oz on, but it's in the subtleties where Oz is from his namesake land. Healty carbs from whole grains? Thanks but no thanks.

PS- his fatty heart from the Charlie Rose show, when Oz was Joy Behar, Taubes was Taubes, Ornish was Oz and the old lady from the AHA was Jillian Michaels. He's come around a lot from 2003 to 2008, so I guess there's still hope for him.

[deirdra]

Everyone I know with Alzheimers either ate a lot of junk food or got on the "Healthy Eating" bandwagon, eliminating saturated fats, using primarily polyunsaturated fats with their grain-heavy high-carb diets. In the 60's & 70's we had Brady-mom Florence Henderson pushing corn oil as if it was liquid gold. I'm hedging my bets by eating real foods & fat.

[Roadstr]

I'm looking over your shoulder at the betting window, diedra because I think your observation is valid and correct.
Thanks Max... I like Jillian and I listen to her radio show every week on one of my 5 mile walks. She use to low carb. Dr. Oz is a heart surgeon and performs bypass surgery and sees the problems first hand. Is Dr. Taubes a surgeon or does he just sells books? I don't know much about him except what I've seen on info-mertials.

Everyone I know with Alzheimers either ate a lot of junk food or got on the "Healthy Eating" bandwagon, eliminating saturated fats, using primarily polyunsaturated fats with their grain-heavy high-carb diets. In the 60's & 70's we had Brady-mom Florence Henderson pushing corn oil as if it was liquid gold. I'm hedging my bets by eating real foods & fat.

[maxlharris]

Roadstr.

Continue digging your own hole.

Dr. Taubes? Amusing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes
Taubes' highest credential is a Masters in Journalism. If a Masters gets called doctor, you may refer to me as Dr. Max.
I would love a link to Mr. Taubes infomercial. The only things that come up with Taubes and infomercial in a google search are a back and forth on the Letters page of Reason where Taubes took Michael Fumento to task over one of Fumento's articles. Fumento came back saying that Taubes has "given up on doing good old investigative science reporting, Taubes first went into infomercials and is now doing science by litigation."

Dr. Oz, on the other hand, has a regular gig on Oprah, an upcoming show produced by Oprah, the Real Age Site, the "You:" books (which are not entirely unlike the "Complete Idiot's Guide" books in terms of tone), etc, etc. Oz is the one with an MBA (he's an MD/MBA... like my dermatologist).

Oz sells a lot more. Like your health information to Pfizer.* Taubes has a science book. No diet (http://www.realage.com/ct/shape-up-slim-down/you-on-a-diet/). No defense contracts.** No Discovery Health program.*** No syndicated TV show. Just more science journalism.

I'm still gonna hold off on any critque of the diet, but I did find this link:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ask-dr-oz/droz1007
where Dr. Oz is asked:
"Is all seafood good for you?"
and answers:
"Nope. Some of the crustaceans have cholesterol — shrimp, crab, lobster."

Dr. Oz, of course, knows that dietary cholesterol is only really 5-10% of the total cholesterol picture and that some cholesterol is actually necessary for the proper functioning of the body.

This makes me tired. I'm done. If you like Oz and think Taubes is a pitch man, you really ought to put your copy of Good Calories, Bad Calories on Paperbackswap.com and see if you can get a copy of You: On a Diet in return. Your money should always go with your beliefs and your values.

*http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/technology/internet/26privacy.html?_r=1
"Online Age Quiz Is a Window for Drug Makers"
"RealAge allows drug companies to send e-mail messages based on those test results. It acts as a clearinghouse for drug companies, including Pfizer (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/pfizer_inc/index.html?inline=nyt-org), Novartis (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/novartis_ag/index.html?inline=nyt-org) and GlaxoSmithKline (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/business/companies/glaxosmithkline_plc/index.html?inline=nyt-org), allowing them to use almost any combination of answers from the test to find people to market to, including whether someone is taking antidepressants (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/antidepressants/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier), how sexually active they are and even if their marriage is happy."

**http://www.siga.com/index.php?ID=6

***http://health.discovery.com/fansites/dr-oz/about-oz-files.html
An interesting critique of the series:
http://www.factsmart.org/mehmet/mehmet.htm

[mcarr36]

I started to use coconut oil 12 days ago. I have been fighting to lose the last few (4) pounds for a couple of years. The first day I put coconut oil in my coffee I noticed my heart rate going up and I began to sweat a little. I continue to use it each morning and I always feel a huge burst of energy. I use the oil to fry my eggs and I eat a couple of pieces of coconut bark (I make it myself) at night. The coconut oil put me in deep ketosis. In 12 days I lost five pounds!! My low carb diet has been the same for many years and I am convinced that the coconut oil is the cause of my weight loss. I am now 1 pound under my goal weight. I am going to up my carbs a little now because I do not want to lose any more weight.