Can you tell me what do you think about this Hugo Rivera's bodybuilding diet?

[RedTerror]

HELLO ALL: I have a question about a diet by professional Bodybuilder Hugo Rivera. I was thinking of doing it, but i would like to make sure, if this diet is too high in starchy-carbohydrates or if it's ok to do it, because i am carbohydrate-sensitive, (meaning i gain weight easy as a result of eating a regular diet like most people). And i wouldn't want to do this diet if it is too high in carbohydrates:


Fat Loss Diet for Men

Meal 1 (7 AM)
1 cup of dry oats mixed with water
1 cup of egg beaters

Meal 2 (9 AM)
Meal replacement or protein powder (around 40 grams of protein) mixed with water
1 Tablespoon of Flaxseed Oil

Meal 3 (12 Noon)
1 cup of brown rice, or medium sized baked potato, or 1 cup of oatmeal
2 cups of green beans, broccoli or any other desired vegetable
6-8 ounces of chicken, turkey, or lean fish

Meal 4 (3 PM)
Meal replacement or protein powder (around 40 grams of protein) mixed with water

Meal 5 (6 PM)
1 cup of brown rice, or medium sized baked potato, or 1 cup of oatmeal
2 cups of green beans, broccoli or any other desired vegetable
6-8 ounces of chicken, turkey, or lean fish

Meal 6 (8 PM)
Meal replacement or protein powder (around 40 grams of protein) mixed with water (No flaxseed Oil at this time)






Fat Loss Diet for Women

Meal 1 (7 AM)
1/2 cup of dry oats mixed with water
1/2 cup of egg beaters

Meal 2 (9 AM)
Meal replacement or protein powder (around 20 grams of protein) mixed with water
1/2 Tablespoon of Flaxseed Oil

Meal 3 (12 Noon)
1/2 cup of brown rice, or medium sized baked potato, or 1 cup of oatmeal
2 cups of green beans, broccoli or any other desired vegetable
6 ounces of chicken, turkey, or lean fish

Meal 4 (3 PM)
Meal replacement or protein powder (around 20 grams of protein) mixed with water

Meal 5 (6 PM)
1/2 cup of brown rice, or medium sized baked potato, or 1 cup of oatmeal
2 cups of green beans, broccoli or any other desired vegetable
6 ounces of chicken, turkey, or lean fish

[maxlharris]

This would work. Assuming you are working out like a professional Bodybuilder. and had a metabolism like one. That means multiple hours in the gym with the weights.

If you are not a pro bodybuilder, do not have the metabolism of a pro bodybuilder or do not work out like a pro bodybuilder, I would think this diet is too high in carbs to reap the benefits of carb reduction. 3 cups of oatmeal is 100G+ carbs by itself. You do not describe his protein powder, but I would guess it's going to have some carb to it. Maybe 10G per serve.

Red: I have to ask you this question. Have you actually worked the Protein Power (or PP Lifeplan) protocols for a couple of weeks? If you haven't, why haven't you? If you have, how has that worked for you? If it's worked well, why go searching for more? If it hasn't worked, why continue around here with essentially the same questions about including rice, oats, potatoes, etc into your diet. I don't think anyone who does protein power would suggest that you'd be well served with three cups of oats a day.

It's a question of time.
Why spend the time to go around and around on the same question to the same group, and get the same answers to these same questions? If you aren't happy with the answers you're getting, you might want to branch out and find others to ask. If you like what you're hearing here, why would you continue to ask the same questions? It's very questionable behavior, RedTerror.

I'm not trying to net.cop you here. I'm really trying to help you find the proper place to get the answers you want.

If you're familiar with newsgroups, you might look at either alt.support.diet.low-carb or misc.fitness.weights for advice on this type of thing. Really, misc.fitness.weights. ASDLC is tighter with carbs than PP.

At any rate, I wish you well.

[lczeledoc]

Red Terror,

Your sample menu is kind of high on the carbs! I don't know the specifics of your situation----starting a PP plan, maintenance, need weight to lose, need to regain insulin sensitivity, etc. Your menu looks like it were tailored for someone who is on maintenance, has good insulin sensitivity, and it is very physically active.

[RedTerror]

Hi, well to tell you the truth, i am carbohydrate-sensitive (meaning i dont have a normal metabolism and a good insulin system), having said that, i continue here in this website, because my metabolism is slow, i get fat easy, i get bloated easy when i eat a lot of rice, potatoes and breads. However if i try to do a diet without starchy-carbohydrates i would feel too weak. That's why i am trying to include just a limited amount of starchy-carb in my diet (like 30 grams a day, and about 40 or 50 grams of vegetables and fruits)

I am trying to do a low carb diet of about 80 grams of carbs in total

And yeah, i will be honest, i haven't started the Dr. Eades Protein Power diet, i have the book here, and i have read it, but i will start to do the diet soon.

And you are right, that Hugo Rivera diet is for pro bodybuilders who spend 1 to 2 hours in the gym every day.

That quantinty of oatmeal would make me bloat, would make me puffy and bloated and i think it would spike up my insulin levels

redterror



This would work. Assuming you are working out like a professional Bodybuilder. and had a metabolism like one. That means multiple hours in the gym with the weights.

If you are not a pro bodybuilder, do not have the metabolism of a pro bodybuilder or do not work out like a pro bodybuilder, I would think this diet is too high in carbs to reap the benefits of carb reduction. 3 cups of oatmeal is 100G+ carbs by itself. You do not describe his protein powder, but I would guess it's going to have some carb to it. Maybe 10G per serve.

Red: I have to ask you this question. Have you actually worked the Protein Power (or PP Lifeplan) protocols for a couple of weeks? If you haven't, why haven't you? If you have, how has that worked for you? If it's worked well, why go searching for more? If it hasn't worked, why continue around here with essentially the same questions about including rice, oats, potatoes, etc into your diet. I don't think anyone who does protein power would suggest that you'd be well served with three cups of oats a day.

It's a question of time.
Why spend the time to go around and around on the same question to the same group, and get the same answers to these same questions? If you aren't happy with the answers you're getting, you might want to branch out and find others to ask. If you like what you're hearing here, why would you continue to ask the same questions? It's very questionable behavior, RedTerror.

I'm not trying to net.cop you here. I'm really trying to help you find the proper place to get the answers you want.

If you're familiar with newsgroups, you might look at either alt.support.diet.low-carb or misc.fitness.weights for advice on this type of thing. Really, misc.fitness.weights. ASDLC is tighter with carbs than PP.

At any rate, I wish you well.

[lczeledoc]

"Hi, well to tell you the truth, i am carbohydrate-sensitive (meaning i dont have a normal metabolism and a good insulin system), having said that, i continue here in this website, because my metabolism is slow, i get fat easy, i get bloated easy when i eat a lot of rice, potatoes and breads. However if i try to do a diet without starchy-carbohydrates i would feel too weak. That's why i am trying to include just a limited amount of starchy-carb in my diet (like 30 grams a day, and about 40 or 50 grams of vegetables and fruits)

I am trying to do a low carb diet of about 80 grams of carbs in total"


The best way to regain your insilin sentitivity is to cut carbs cold turkey! Do the 30-40 g carb/day. Yes, you might feel weak intially. I did too. But eventually your hormonal and enzime machinery will switch to run on fat instead of sugar. When I first started, I struggled a little when lifitng weights, but it passed. Think about, carbs are an addiction, and like wany addiction, there are "withdrawl" pains.

[maxlharris]

Second that. The first time you go low (and frequently subsequent times) (and by low I mean <50/day), it is very natural to feel really weak and bad for couple days to a couple weeks. Google "Carb flu." Will tell you more than you wanted to know.

After an adaptation period, you will feel better than ever. You will lift as strong as before. Your endurance will be fine. You will sleep better. It will take a few days to a couple weeks. But you'll wonder why you never did it before.

[Mal Lady]

Second that. The first time you go low (and frequently subsequent times) (and by low I mean <50/day), it is very natural to feel really weak and bad for couple days to a couple weeks. Google "Carb flu." Will tell you more than you wanted to know.

After an adaptation period, you will feel better than ever. You will lift as strong as before. Your endurance will be fine. You will sleep better. It will take a few days to a couple weeks. But you'll wonder why you never did it before.

I didn't know they had a name for that? "Carb flu"? I learn something new from you everyday Max!

Sharon

[maxlharris]

Also known as Atkins Flu. But we do PP, so it's carb flu here. I don't think anyone else talks about this here (40g might be too high for most people to experience the flu like symptoms of Atkins Induction that some people get).

Again, sugar/starch can be viewed, profitably, as an addiction. When you quit, you are not liable to do so easily or without symptoms. Ergo, Carb Flu.

[RedTerror]

Hey, i have a question: I am in another forum, a bodybuilding forum and they talk openly about eating 1 cup of oatmeal every day, potatoe, and even breads.

(DAMN !!)

If i eat like them, i would get fat, bloated and puffy real quick, my face would blow up !!

Does it mean that they are not carbohydrate-sensitive and i am indeed carbohydrate-sensitive? In other words, do they have a normal, balanced, stable insulin reaction to carbohydrates unlike most of us here who get real high insulin levels if we eat like them?

Damn, how bad lucky we are, i mean they can eat oatmeal, potatoes, breads and yet not get fat, and we cannot eat none of that food

redterror


Also known as Atkins Flu. But we do PP, so it's carb flu here. I don't think anyone else talks about this here (40g might be too high for most people to experience the flu like symptoms of Atkins Induction that some people get).

Again, sugar/starch can be viewed, profitably, as an addiction. When you quit, you are not liable to do so easily or without symptoms. Ergo, Carb Flu.

[maxlharris]

Again, it goes to workouts and such.

Here you have a body builder. Work out long and heavy. Burn a lot of energy. Big muscles. Take carbs after workout, will go first to muscle glycogen replenishment. Not a problem, from the point of insulin response/sensitivity. They have large amounts of muscle, they can handle big spikes (white bread) or long controlled flows (oatmeal) of blood sugar and insulin. Also, your typical bodybuilder is lifting on low fat. If you take out the fat, lift frequent and heavy, and eat carbs, you probably won't have a problem.

Now, if you can't work out like that, you can't really eat like that.

If you have a bloating response to carbs, you might want to low carb for a while, build more muscle, and try working the carbs back in later.

If you don't want to look like a body builder, you should neither eat nor lift like a body builder.

It goes back to goals. Most of the people on PP want to lose weight or deal with health issues. Very effective tool. If you want to build muscle, you can up the protein in PP, maybe time some carbs back in (not necessary, though if you're looking to gain mass, probably helpful) and work smartly.

Any rate, where do you want to go? That's really the core question. If you want to be a bodybuilder, that's one thing. If you have other goals, that's something else.

[patrick1]

What about the new CDK idea? This one website I was on mentioned that if you cycle your ketogenic diet(CDK) you will keep glucose levels in your muscles full and be able to stay in ketosis. Basically this fella advocates a 5-6 day 30g of carbs or less followed by two days of loading carbs. The first day is outrageous, at about a 700g load and the second day at about 300g. This seems stupid to me since your body would probably be well out of ketosis and away from the hgh benefits in the first day and then to have to go through the 48hr blues of using stored glucose before entering into ketosis again just to do it all over in a few days! The idea is to be able to have full muscles and not lose strength because of lack of carbs, but I'm not sure I've ever experienced any loss of strength. Has anyone heard of this or tried it? Also, what about creatine? In a keto diet you are dieuretic, so how does creatine, or can creatine, still help with water retention in the musculoskeletal system if the water is being forced out by ketosis? I'd like to hear some input.

[lczeledoc]

After regaining insulin sensitivity, I think cycling carb consumption is good for building muscle. It also depends where you are fitness wise, do you have a lot of fat to lose? If so, then keeping the carbs low is the priority. But you can afford a few more carbs in the post-workout period. Since at that time the carbs will go to muscle glycogen and the insulin will help with aminoacid synthesis

[maxlharris]

FWIW: Both Hugo and the TKD/CKD folks are talking about people who are working out at athlete levels in intensity and duration.

FWIW: LCZ is right on the money. How you plan your diet really begins with goals and distance to them. If you have fat to lose, you are best served by keeping carbs low, consistently, and then perhaps through some additional caloric restriction. If you don't, and you just want to bulk, CKD/TKD might be a better solution.

Last thing: Not to pile on Red Terror, but he had some things missing in his thinking. Holes that he wasn't willing to fill, or was seeking to fill in all the wrong places. I wouldn't take much away from his posts.

[patrick1]

But the question still remains whether or not creatine is worth its price if taken while in deep ketosis. You guys seem to feel confident in CKD, maybe I'll give it a shot to see what happens. I take a multi, extra A, C, D and amino's along with glutamine and creatine. I'm pretty cut right now, 5'11" tall, 32" waist, 15 1/2 arms at about 175lbs, so I can afford a mistake, but I feel so good!!!! Also, you guys seem to be advocates of a higher intensity weight session, I feel that the 3 exercise per bodypart, 4 sets each at 8-10 reps a set is optimal, how do you guys feel? I work each bodypart once by itself during the week and then a whole body workout on the weekend. My days off are before and after the whole body routine, what do you think? Please keep up the good critique of my ignorance, I learn by asking questions.

[lczeledoc]

But the question still remains whether or not creatine is worth its price if taken while in deep ketosis. You guys seem to feel confident in CKD, maybe I'll give it a shot to see what happens. I take a multi, extra A, C, D and amino's along with glutamine and creatine. I'm pretty cut right now, 5'11" tall, 32" waist, 15 1/2 arms at about 175lbs, so I can afford a mistake, but I feel so good!!!! Also, you guys seem to be advocates of a higher intensity weight session, I feel that the 3 exercise per bodypart, 4 sets each at 8-10 reps a set is optimal, how do you guys feel? I work each bodypart once by itself during the week and then a whole body workout on the weekend. My days off are before and after the whole body routine, what do you think? Please keep up the good critique of my ignorance, I learn by asking questions. You seem to be in good shape based on your body weight and dimensions. it sounds like CKD might be be for you---no fat issues. Take the creatine with some simple carbs, grape juice or maltodextrin 30 minutes after our workout. My own take is that intensity is king when it comes to building muscle. Any workout over 45 minutes and it becomes catabolic, too much cortisol production. Youw want to educate yourself, read T-Nation. Basically the key to building muscle is high intensity to generate a high GH & testosterone release. Then you need a good insulin release at about 60,minutes after your workout for glycogen & aminoacid synthesis/ The key to all of this is hormonal manipulation. Also, you need plenty of rest and enough calories to build muscle. So if you are lean enough, then eat about 300-500 calories above your maintenance needs to build muscle.

[maxlharris]

But the question still remains whether or not creatine is worth its price if taken while in deep ketosis. You guys seem to feel confident in CKD, maybe I'll give it a shot to see what happens. I take a multi, extra A, C, D and amino's along with glutamine and creatine. I'm pretty cut right now, 5'11" tall, 32" waist, 15 1/2 arms at about 175lbs, so I can afford a mistake, but I feel so good!!!! Also, you guys seem to be advocates of a higher intensity weight session, I feel that the 3 exercise per bodypart, 4 sets each at 8-10 reps a set is optimal, how do you guys feel? I work each bodypart once by itself during the week and then a whole body workout on the weekend. My days off are before and after the whole body routine, what do you think? Please keep up the good critique of my ignorance, I learn by asking questions.

I don't think in terms of "body parts" but rather movement patterns. This is really a distinction between function (movement patterns) and whatever the camp is that is into old school bodybuilding is called (have no idea).

So, 3 movements per bodypart feels excessive.

On the other side of things, 4*8-10 is a nice compromise set, but if you are looking for hypertrophy, you might look into something more like 5*5 or 6*3, with heavy weights and a slowish tempo for a bit.

The concept is periodization. You get adjusted to various movements, set patterns, tempos, rest patterns. Most people will change up exercises every month or so (well, probably not most people, but most people who are putting some thought into what they're up to... I should note, I work out at work, I work for the federal government, so I work out with a lot of guys who are late 50's to mid 60's and they are really looking to maintain something, rather than gain something, so my opinion of what most people do or don't do might be skewed). But they continue with a 3*8-10 set pattern with a fast tempo, and 60 seconds of rest between sets. And they wonder why they aren't seeing progression.

I cannot recommend highly enough The New Rules of Lifting by Lou Schuler and Alwyn Cosgrove. They explain, in fairly straight forward talk, exactly what's up and why you might want to be up to it.

As to the creatine/ketosis question:
1- There is no "deep ketosis." You are either switched to fat burning or you are not. There are middle positions, but there isn't an "extreme" ketosis. In or out. Works pretty well for most discussions.

2- I don't have the chemistry to really address creatine metabolism in a fat burning system. I don't know that anyone has looked at this, as low carb and muscle build are fairly new to each other. If anyone's gonna look at it, it'll be UConn. But, I don't know that they have, yet.

Lastly: If you feel so good right now, why not work like this, without carb loading, for a while, and see how it goes. It's entirely possible that you won't need to reload and that CKD isn't an optimal diet plan for you. I'd always start with the minimal intervention, and build on it, than start at the larger intervention (CKD is a bigger deal than just PPLP) and have to reduce backwards.

Thanks for the discussion.

Again: New Rules of Lifting, ignore the nutrition part.

[patrick1]

Okay, that all makes sense, I'm not disputing any of it. Now lets move on to a bit if medical info that I stumbled into; a Ketogenic diet comes basically in two ratios when dealing with the medical field-2:1 or 4:1 grams of fat to protein. I recently started my life diet in that direction and take in roughly 96gr of protein and 200 or so of fat (which is suprisingly not hard) and have a more full feeling through the day plus I think my energy levels went up. I was taking in around 250gr protein and noticed a sort of sluggish feeling. I looked into it and found that gluconeogenesis can cause that, but if you reduce protein and up fat it goes away. My main concern is that protein levels won't be adequate for hypertrophy, but I guess trial and error are the ways to deal with it. All of my fats are pretty clean, real butter, red meats and pork along with mackeral (love the Jack Mack) and so scientifically I don't see any negative health effects. What do you think? You have some interesting feedback. I also think that a good way to break op your workout is to do a couple weeks of bodypart isolation(4 days, Chest, Back, Arms/shoulders/traps, legs) then switch to three whole bodies sticking with yourcompound movements but with less sets, more rest and more weight. Then maybe a couple of weeks with super set push/pull type of work. Just my opinion!

[maxlharris]

Hrm.
For the protein, I like the formulae in the original Protein Power. Figure your lean body mass out, through something like the waist-wrist measurement chart (in the book) or the Navy body fat estimator. Figure out how active you are gonna be. If you're gonna sit on the couch, .5g of protein / pound of LBM. If you're gonna work out a little, .6g/lb. If you're gonna work out a lot, .7g. Up to .9g/lb.

But then, I was reading over at T-Nation and saw this:
http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/protein_more_muscle_less_guesswork

Personalize Your Protein Needs


Choose your current training cycle from the list that follows.
Determine your desired (goal) body weight, in pounds.
Multiply your desired body weight by the suggested grams of protein per pound of body weight per day.
Results from Step 3 provide you with your recommended grams of protein per day.
Divide your total daily protein into six meals per day.
If Step 5 suggests you need fewer than 25 grams of protein per meal, round up to 25. In other words, everyone using this system will have at least 150 grams of protein per day.


Current training cycle:
Off-season or moderate
You have no specific goals beyond maintaining your current body composition.
You need 0.8 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day.
Sample:
Goal weight - 195
Protein grams per pound - .8
Protein grams per day - 156
Protein grams per meal - 26

Moderate to high intensity
You're pushing yourself to build muscle, gain strength, and/or lose fat.
You need 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight per day.
Sample:
Goal weight - 195
Protein grams per pound - 1.0
Protein grams per day - 195
Protein grams per meal - 32.5

High intensity or pre-competition
You're in serious training, possibly preparing for a bodybuilding contest or some other competition that requires peak performance.
You need 1.36 grams of protein per pound of body weight per day.
Sample:
Goal weight - 195
Protein grams per pound - 1.36
Protein grams per day - 265
Protein grams per meal - 44


Now, that's for T-Nation, bodybuilding type people. But, the idea is the same as the Eades in PP. Goals and activity determine methods. That should be a founding principle of whatever people do. Work towards something. That should make the steps relatively easy to figure.

Which brings us to your cycle. It really depends on your goals. I'm still in the fat loss phase of things. I spent some time doing some hypertrophy, but it wasn't really burning the fat like I wanted, so I'm back to doing work to burn fat.

What's that look like:
Intervals. After full body workouts. Intervals followed by flatter cardio on non-lifting days. Full body workouts made of circuits. Low rest, high rep work. Cross fit style workout time periods.

Work that for a month. Then, ramp down to straight circuits. Then, rest a week. Then ramp up to a strength build 3 week set. Then wash, rinse and repeat. At some point, that gets me where I want to be. At least from a fat loss point of view. Hopefully by X-mas.

Then, set a new goal. Perhaps some hypertrophy. Look good on my next beach vaycay. Design a program for that.

I can't really comment on your progression because I don't know the start point or the end goal. And really, if it's not being driven by a goal, it's hard to assess if it's effective. If we're just talking general health, I'd say do some intervals, play some sports, and do bodyweight circuits with pullups, pushups, inverted rows, squats and lunges etc, etc. Work all 7 basic movements (push (all planes), pull (all planes), squat, twist, lunge, deadlift, walk). And don't worry about bodyparts. I suspect this isn't the goal, though.

[patrick1]

Okay, you say the level of protein is less then what I'm taking in, interesting. Basically, I'm pretty cut up, but there is never an end to body exploration. I eat the way I do for the health benefits and feeling good. Frankly, I spent a lot of time in prison and studied two things for 11 years, health and religion. I've went from a FLEX metality to my current state by trial and error. I am a dedicated enthusiast to the idea that God gave us a body and it would be disrespectful to abuse it and ignore all of its physiological aspects just so you can chase things on a more "animalistic" level. I believe in education, not weight loss. I was a chubby kid, but my decision to persue health was prompted by a lot of time that was used reading books and contemplating their meaning and functionality. I think that the majority of bodybuilders that write most of those articles are juiced to unnatural proportions and that their diets are designed around calorie intake more then health because steroids need two things, stimulation from exercise and many calories to fuel the jacked up levels of hypertrophy they produce. You can't tell me different because I've been around some of the biggest natural guys you've ever seen and they are fluff next to the FLEX group. My goal is to find the truth of how we're supposed to eat and why everyone else is wrong. Protein power and atkins are on the mark. As John calvin once said, the church is reformed and still reforming, so to, we have found the keys to health, but we are still finding the keys to health. I'm 28 years old, not much fat on me at all, but that doesn't change the fact that I want to know the importance of the macro nutrients and the ratios we were designed to eat them in. (If you are an evolutionist I find no fault in you, I am basically of the same persuasion, God called Abraham who then evolved into a nation, God started man off as a small something and had him evolve into his surroundings, its just the way God works, He even went from a baby to a man.)As for the intense cardio that you do, does it benefit you? I just get worn out for the most part, but I'm highly active all day so that might be it. I'm more under the impression that man is made for short intense bursts of power and then its all strolling speeds after that. I guess that if you feel you have more to lose then cardio is a way to expend calories, but I'm not in the least convinced it burns fat, I feel it burns muscle. The circuit training is probably your best bet if you ask me. So far your knowledge has made me think, keep it up! Also, have you noticed that the countries obsession with low fat has made it difficult to find fatty meats? Everything is lean cut this or lean cut that, I want high fat everything! What are your views on diet pops effect on insulin sensitivity, or even aspartame? The people from protein power wrote me an e-mail that answered the creatine question well, they said that water has little to do with the effects of creatine, it is effective because it fuels short term bursts of energy to levels above the norm. I knew I needed to read up more on that.

[maxlharris]

Patrick & Others: This might be an interesting study to consider:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18661258?dopt=Abstract

Acute and long-term effects of resistance exercise with or without protein ingestion on muscle hypertrophy and gene expression.

Hulmi JJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Hulmi%20JJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kovanen V (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kovanen%20V%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Selänne H (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Sel%C3%A4nne%20H%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Kraemer WJ (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Kraemer%20WJ%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Häkkinen K (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22H%C3%A4kkinen%20K%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract), Mero AA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=Search&Term=%22Mero%20AA%22%5BAuthor%5D&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsP anel.Pubmed_RVAbstract).

Department of Biology of Physical Activity, University of Jyväskylä, P.O. Box 35, 40014, Jyväskylä, Finland, juha.hulmi@sport.jyu.fi.

The effects of timed ingestion of high-quality protein before and after resistance exercise are not well known. In this study, young men were randomized to protein (n = 11), placebo (n = 10) and control (n = 10) groups. Muscle cross-sectional area by MRI and muscle forces were analyzed before and after 21 weeks of either heavy resistance training (RT) or control period. Muscle biopsies were taken before, and 1 and 48 h after 5 x 10 repetition leg press exercise (RE) as well as 21 weeks after RT. Protein (15 g of whey both before and after exercise) or non-energetic placebo were provided to subjects in the context of both single RE bout (acute responses) as well as each RE workout twice a week throughout the 21-week-RT. Protein intake increased (P </= 0.05) RT-induced muscle cross-sectional area enlargement and cell-cycle kinase cdk2 mRNA expression in the vastus lateralis muscle suggesting higher proliferating cell activation response with protein supplementation. Moreover, protein intake seemed to prevent 1 h post-RE decrease in myostatin and myogenin mRNA expression but did not affect activin receptor IIb, p21, FLRG, MAFbx or MyoD expression. In conclusion, protein intake close to resistance exercise workout may alter mRNA expression in a manner advantageous for muscle hypertrophy.
Emphasis mine.

The more I read, the more I come to an understanding of protein pre and post, and a mixed protein that combines fast and slow acting proteins. Abstract doesn't detail protein type, but if you took 15g of whey pre and post, and added another 15 of casein to the post, you might see larger gains.

Last: This is hypertrophy, not strength building. The study participants probably did get stronger, but the focus here was hypertrophy.

[maxlharris]

Frankly, I'm just trying out the more flat cardio for a bit on the recommendation of Alwyn Cosgrove. We'll see how I feel about it in a month. Too early to report.

I like the paleo lens, but I wonder sometimes. Is it possible to do better than what your ancestors did? Is it possible that your circumstances are different so your solution might be different. I dunno. At that point, we're into philosophy.

There's some evidence for the long distance runner. There's some evidence for short bursts of intense power. I think homo sapiens evolved for flexibility. Think of the wonders of the mind. It's well suited for a wide variety of tasks and environments. I think adaptability is probably the core design issue. Here's man. Can do ultramarathons. Can do double bodyweight deadlifts. Can eat veggies. Can eat fruit. Can eat meat. Can eat fish, eggs, grains, grasses (corn is a grass), etc. Can fast for long periods. Can eat every 2 hours. Can run a 10-s 100m dash or a 4 minute mile.