low carbs but still troublesome blood results

[samoore]

I am 5'11", 172lbs. I have lost about 30 lbs of fat over the last 8 months (while gaining 5 lbs of muscle; 13% body fat) with calorie restriction (for the first 5 months), and then carb restriction (PP) for the last 3 months. I am eating about 50 net carbs per day unless I exercise, then I add 40g carbs to my protein shakes both before and after I exercise (in an effort to gain muscle mass). By "exercise", I mean 45-75 minutes of high intensity weight training (New Rules of Lifting). I have been lifting 3-4x per week since mid-June. I do eat lots of saturated fat and eggs, no trans fats, no packaged foods at all, no HFCS, no grain or potato or rice or sugar.

Enough background.

I just got my blood results back. I fasted for 10 hours before this sample:

Total Chol: 246
HDL: 52
LDL: 181
Trig: 68

Blood sugar: 125

TTL/HDL = 4.7 (s/b <=4)
LDL/HDL = 3.5 (s/b <=3)
Trig/HDL = 1.3 (s/b <= 1.8 [correcting previous typo (of 1.3)!])

I'm less than ecstatic about these results. I am most worried about the blood sugar results though the cholesterol ratios don't make me very happy.

I am getting re-tested the first week of April. What should I do between now and then?

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

[maxlharris]

I lift NROL workouts. They don't require carb loading. You make adaptations. It takes a month or so. You don't feel wonderful doing the workout. After you make the adaptation, you're as good as ever. Your carb (re)loading might be messing with your numbers, particularly your BG numbers. Even with fasting. I'm going to guess that on days when you go up to 90g, you're probably loading about 50g into one pre or post workout meal. 3-4 times a week. Not gonna be good for BG control. Not at all.

Don't have specific advice on the cholesterol. It might be the sat fat, keeping it high. Some forms of sat fat (palmitic acid in particularly) will raise LDL.

[Ottawa]

When do you work out?
My fasting blood/glucose is higher in the morning if I did a heavy workout the evening before. Evening Aerobics and sports don't have the same effect but still raise the numbers.
An intense evening resistance workout (legs/arms/abs) puts me just a little under the B/G number you show. Prior to going low carb I was 144 (8.0 ). Normally I am about 104 (5.8) and 97 (5.4) when doing IF.

Do you know what your readings were at your heaviest weight?

As well, a 10 hour fast is the minimum often asked for in B/G testing but most clinics ask for 12 hours. That shouldn't make a big difference but it would be a bit lower for sure.

[dvdmon]

I know it is dissapointing to see numbers you hoped would be dramatically different (well, are they - we didn't get your initial numbers?), but blood cholesterol numbers don't change at the same rate for everyone. My total and went up and stayed up for many more months. It took me a good 18 months before they stopped and came back down, which they did, and my HDL was rising and Tri's going down during this period. I'm not sure where you get the number of your Tri/HDL level needing to be 1.3 or lower? PPLP indicates that CHD risk is pretty low if it is less than 5, but optimal is less than 2.

I agree the BS is something to keep an eye on, but the cholesterol numbers aren't out of whack, and in and of themselves don't give us a whole lot. Getting a VAP test in order to show LDL-subtype pattern, HDL Subtypes, homocystene, Lp-a, Crp, etc. might go someway to giving you better information here as well as hopefully some confidense, but some of this also depends on where you are coming from. If you could provide your initial numbers (before starting this regimen), than at least you would know if you are going in the right direction.

I hate to be a pessimist, but at least as far as cholesterol, I don't think retesting in just 2 months is going to prove or disprove anything. Some of these markers can take 6-12, even 18 months to make any significant move...

[samoore]

Thanks to all for responding! Your help is really appreciated!!

A little (more) background...

I'm 46 years old. I'm having a heck of a time stopping my weight loss (197 at 30% bf% to begin with, now down to 172lbs and 13%). I work out first thing in the morning (6am); I have a protein/carb shake at about 5:45am and another about 15 minutes after I'm done. I added the carb shakes after I reached my target body fat%; before that I was just doing protein shakes (25g protein plus water). I did 4 weeks of hypertrophy workouts from NRoL (after 4 months of the fat loss workouts) and wasn't adding any weight at all; I read Chad Waterbury's Muscle Revolution and he recommended adding 40g of carbs to a shake right before and after a workout for muscle gain. Maybe this was a mistake but I needed to try something because I wasn't gaining weight even though I was (and am) lifting a lot of iron.

I eat frequently. I have a pre- and post-workout shake. Then one hour later I have 3 eggs plus 2 slices of bacon. Then around 10am I have some almonds. At noon I eat lunch (ex: grilled chicken salad; or a burrito bowl with steak, salsa, avocado, cheese and no beans or rice or tortilla). At 2:30pm I generally have a homemade protein bar (http://proteinpower.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4796&postcount=14). Then I might have a protein shake (no carbs) around 5pm. Then I have a full dinner (very low net carbs; usually fish or pork plus a salad and broccoli). At night I have a protein shake (no carbs plus an egg white) right before I go to bed.

And with all of this I can barely maintain my weight. I've given up high intensity interval training that I was doing when I was trying to lose fat.

One of my regrets is that I don't have any pre-weight loss blood numbers.

[LisaS]

maybe you aren't eating enough fat or enough calories? If you measure everything you eat for a couple of typical days and put all of that into a calculator - what kind of calories and macros comes out for a typical day?

[samoore]

maybe you aren't eating enough fat or enough calories? If you measure everything you eat for a couple of typical days and put all of that into a calculator - what kind of calories and macros comes out for a typical day?

This is a good observation. Yeah, I'm probably not eating enough calories, probably 22-2400. (I've tracked carefully before so this is pretty close.) So I should just eat more? I swear I eat until I'm stuffed every day. I never ever ever am hungry. Should I just add a couple ounces of roast beef 3x per day? Or another snack of something like peanut butter and celery?

[Gaelen]

samoore...one of the questions that comes to mind is whether you've had a complete physical workup? Not just a blood draw...an electrocardiogram (ECG), a full physical, urinalysis, colonoscopy, etc, which are all appropriate for your age. To figure this out, at 46, you need to know that your baselines for all of your body systems are normal.

If you aren't actually eating enough, that could be the issue...but with the amount of exercise you're doing, that could be hard to pinpoint, and adding calories could just mask something more serios. It's sometimes considered a good thing to take a break from your exercise plan for a brief (7-10 day) period. If you did that, and continued to eat at your current level, and continued to lose weight, that could indicate a physical problem that needs to be traced out.

Have you tried pulling back from all exercise for a week to see if you can maintain your weight on what you're currently eating? If you aren't demanding as much of your body, and you stay eating at your current level, and you're still losing weight, then you know you have some other things to investigate.

[samoore]

samoore...one of the questions that comes to mind is whether you've had a complete physical workup? ... It's sometimes considered a good thing to take a break from your exercise plan for a brief (7-10 day) period.

Good points. I'm having a full physical mid-April --- that's why I had the blood work done!

I generally take one week off every two months. I eat less during that time, and I maintain my weight. I also eat less on the days that I don't exercise --- e.g., no shakes in the morning and smaller portions during the day.

But good observations. Thanks so much!

Oh, one thing I didn't mention above...my blood pressure was 120/72 --- this is the lowest it has been in at least 20 years. Considering the amount of stress I'm under at work, I was absolutely thrilled with that.

[laughingW]

On the timing of your workouts - do you exercise in the 2 hour window after a meal? I'm not familiar with the NRoL is why I ask.

Seems to me that putting "outgo" demands on the body at the same time as the systems are engaged in putting away the groceries, so to speak, would be counterproductive?

[samoore]

On the timing of your workouts - do you exercise in the 2 hour window after a meal?

Here's my schedule (I'm quite anal about this!): I wake up at 5am in order to give my back time to loosen up; this requires about 1hr. From 5:30-5:45am I drink my pre-workout shake (used to be 25g protein; now it's 25g protein plus 40g carbs; in the future I'm going to cut the carbs to 10-20g). I work out from 6-7am. I drink my post workout shake from 7:30-7:45. I eat breakfast at 8:30.

What I'm trying to do is get easy-to-digest protein into the blood stream for use during and immediately after my workout to facilitate the muscle rebuilding that needs to go on after lifting. I have the carbs right after I wake up as a means of jump-starting my body for the day and to give my body something to digest instead of going after the protein in my muscles first thing in the morning.

Those are the lessons that I have picked up, anyway. I hope they're right. In the future, I'm cutting the carbs in my pre-workout shake in half and cutting the carbs in my post-workout shake by 3/4. These have been my only deviations from PP eating. I didn't use the carbs for about 2 months while I was striving to lose fat and my body made the adjustment so I know I can do it.

[maxlharris]

Okay, a technical issue here. What kind of protein is in the shake? If you're using a whey only, well, it's a fast protein, so it's gotta be in the system during or within half an hour after the workout to do real building. (If you watch sports, you might have seen the Brady Quinn EAS Commercial... "Now My Workout is Done") And it's a sub-optimal solution at that.

Better, for mass gain, to use a protein blend that combines a fast and a slow protein, like a whey/cassein mix. The cassein will work on the muscles over a longer period of time, not just the 30 minutes post workout.

Another thought on NRoL. Maybe you want to finish your current hypertrophy workout, take a week off, and work something like this: Strength I, Hypertrophy II, Week off, Strength II, Hypertrophy III, week off, Strength III, Fat Loss I. Or at least the first couplet there. If you're going 4x a week, that's 6 weeks.

Suggestion is based on this idea. If you have more strength, you'll see some growth, and you'll have more ability to do the hypertrophy workouts. If you do the hypertrophy heavier, and you're a hard gainer, that might break the "stall".

I also agree with the idea that you might not be taking in enough calories. A thought. You have your workout shake. What if you mixed it in Hood Calorie Countdown Milk (milk or chocolate). Calories up a little, protein up a little, drinkability up a lot. Alternatively, adding some heavy cream to the mix might work nicely too.

As always, it's your science experiment and mileage varies. If I were in your situation, here's what I'd do:
Try the Strength series
Up the protein to at least 150g/day, ad lib, not to exceed 300g/day.

See where that takes me.

On the flip side, you're doing really well in your weight loss and recomposition, and a lot of folks on here (self included) would be pretty excited about 30% -> 13% (I went from 35% -> ~15% at one point, but would like to get to 12% or so).

[samoore]

Wow. Really thoughtful response. Thanks.

Whey protein. I do drink it right after the workout. But you make a good point --- I should get some cassein in the mix.

Here's the NRoL workouts I have coming up:
Hypertrophy II: I'm on the last week
a week of no lifting, just HIIT
Strength I
a week of no lifting, just HIIT
Hypertrophy III
a week of no lifting, just HIIT
Strength II
a week of no lifting, just HIIT
Fat Loss
Strength III

I had the same thoughts as you --- build muscle to help increase strength, and increase strength as a way of forcing muscle growth. I'm glad to get this reinforcement. Thanks! (I recently tested my 1RM and got Bench:body weight [yeah!], Squat:295, and Deadlift:315. I'm excited to see what the strength programs will do for me.)

Hood Calorie Countdown Milk? Hmmmm. I'm going to have to look into this. I have previously added between 1/2-1 cup of whole fat yogurt to my shake; every now and then I have added up to 1/2 cup of heavy cream to my shake. I'll look into this product, and I'll stick with it a while and see what results I get. I realize that MMMV. It's all a big experiment.

And thanks for the support on my transformation so far. Yeah, I'm definitely pleased about where I am. The mirror tells me a much better story today than it did a year ago. I'm just trying to push the envelope a little bit and see what my old body can do.

Thanks again for all of your help and kind words.

[lczeledoc]

samoore,

Maybe you should eliminate your pre-workout meal. That is a lot of carbs. and have a PO drink with <35 eccs. I read somewhere, from Charles Poliquin, that the Carb content of your PO drink should be based on your lbm, type of workout, and your degree of insulin sensitivity.

[maxlharris]

I had the same thoughts as you --- build muscle to help increase strength, and increase strength as a way of forcing muscle growth. I'm glad to get this reinforcement. Thanks! (I recently tested my 1RM and got Bench:body weight [yeah!], Squat:295, and Deadlift:315. I'm excited to see what the strength programs will do for me.)

Congrats on the BW:Bench. Of course remember the new rule: Numbers are tools, not goals.

[samoore]

Congrats on the BW:Bench. Of course remember the new rule: Numbers are tools, not goals.

That's a great point. When I started working out, I felt some pressure (from parts of the fitness industry) to have specific goals for specific lifts, to be shooting for something in particular. I've gotta confess: For the most part, I didn't do that. My goal was very simple: lift 3 to 4 times per week, every week, no matter what my schedule looked like or how busy I was. Commit to the process. I did, and that worked (and continues to work) for me. Let the results take care of themselves. Underlying this goal is my commitment to improving every single time I lift. I believe that this broad goal, and this easily observed commitment, have been vital to getting me from a position as a raw beginner to where I am now.

My "for the most part" phrase above alludes to the one specific goal that I did have: bench press my body weight. I have had this goal (for better or for worse) for at least 30 years. I had never come close to reaching it. But in 6 months of following the NRoL programs, I achieved it. I was a happy camper on that day, I'll tell you that. Well, now I have a new goal: 225. And after that, I'll set a new goal. On it goes. Get better. Work hard every day. Enjoy the process.

And to make this all work, I have to get the nutrition right. And that's where my question came from, and I'm now going to use all of this great feedback for a few months and see what happens to my body. I think it is going to make a significant difference. I'll report back when the returns start making themselves apparent.

[samoore]

I have an update. I had blood tests done again last week for my annual physical. I've changed some of my habits in the interim. I still eat eggs every day, but I only have one whole egg with 5 eggs whites instead of 4 whole eggs. I have also changed my morning protein shakes so that they have no more than about 25 carbs total. I have continued to minimize carbs that I eat the rest of the day --- i.e., usually 60-80 carbs per day total. I still haven't touched a trans fat, HFCS, grain, potato, rice, or sugar in the last 6 months.

I continue to lift 4x/week. I'm on Hypertrophy III of New Rules of Lifting right now. I've been able to gain about 3 lbs of muscle in the last 3 months --- with a lot of work and discipline, thank you very much. I eat about 2700-3000 calories per day, eating about 7-8x/day. That's the hardest part of all of this --- eating so frequently and so much. (FYI, my 1RM after 10 months are now bench/205, squat/325, and deadlift/365! I still have Strength II and III remaining!)

My readings this last week were the following (corresponding readings from January 2008 are given when available):

Total Chol: 226 (was 246)
HDL: 51 (was 52)
LDL: 159 (was 181)
Trig: 75 (was 68)
Ttl/HDL: 4.4 (was 4.7)
LDL/HDL: 3.1 (was 3.5)
Trig/HDL: 1.5 (was 1.3)
Glucose: 116 (was 125)
Hemo A1c: 6.0

I guess I'm generally happy with the improvement. Give me some encouragement! My doctor is quite unhappy --- he wants my total cholesterol to be less than 160; he wants me to seriously reduce the fat in my diet, too. He would have put me on statins right there if I hadn't told him I was going to give the diet another year to see how my body continues to adapt to it (I just started on it in November 2007).

I continue to be surprised at my glucose/Hemo A1c readings. My aunt has diabetes but she's the only one on either side of my family with this issue.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on any of this. Thanks so much!!

[maxlharris]

On the 160: your doctor is wrong. There's no good way to put that. You really want the ratios to be in place and your total <220 to be in the best place for total mortality.

On the actual numbers: Total down. Good. HDL stable: okay. LDL down: good. Trig up a notch: not that bad. It's a little weird. I suppose with carbs up in the 60-80 range, maybe. But 75 is still low and good, so no worries. Egg yolks might push the HDL up. I know you don't want total up, but a higher denominator improves all ratios.

I think you're doing fine. If you can't get along with doc, you might want to switch. Otherwise, you're just gonna have to hold the course for a while and prove him wrong.

[samoore]

Thanks a lot. I read the results basically like you did. I figure my body is still adapting to the diet so that it might take another few months for the blood work results to stabilize. Right now they seem to be moving in the right direction, so I'm going to stay the course. I hope to get my total less than 220 if for no other reason than that seems to be an upper bound that lots of people have settled on for the "normal" range. Once I get there (in another six months or so?), then I'm going to really focus on the ratios (that are mostly moving in the right direction now anyway).

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

[mcsblues]

Just my opinion of course, but I couldn't see the slightest problem with you initial cholesterol numbers (or the slight variation in your current test) - and I doubt Mike Eades would either (if he were to give you advice over the net , which quite understandably he can't). You blood glucose/A1c numbers on the other hand are a concern (and I agree with Max, you need to find a doctor who is more interested in what is really important for your health - not one who is lost in the whole diet/heart/cholesterol nonsense).

Even Ancel Keys (the man most responsible for the current 'health' guidelines) admitted from the beginning (more than 50 years ago) that dietary cholesterol intake had no impact on blood readings (he tried with massive doses ... and failed) so stop throwing out those egg yolks!

It might pay you to re-examine your lifting and feeding regime in the light of your elevated BG. This is clearly your number one health concern, so getting those figures lower, should (IMHO) take priority, and maybe adjusting your workout to fit a lower carb intake with (perhaps) fewer meals might have you heading in the right direction (especially as you may be genetically predisposed to diabetes).

Again. it is just my opinion, but I suggest you get a BG testing machine and more closely examine your fasting and post meal response (especially so if you decide to maintain your current carb intake and feeding frequency).

[samoore]

Thanks, Malcolm! I am definitely worried about the BG/A1c numbers. I've been very surprised by these numbers from the beginning. Like I said, I don't eat anything high carb any more and these readings are still elevated. One thing I don't understand is why fewer meals might be helpful?

You're basically saying that I need to better understand my body's responses to my food intakes, and change them accordingly. That seems like a reasonable idea. Any further insight into the details of BG monitoring? You're talking about one of those pin-prick devices, right? (I'm completely clueless here!) I assume these are available in any decent pharmacy.

[Ammy]

On the 160: your doctor is wrong. There's no good way to put that. You really want the ratios to be in place and your total <220 to be in the best place for total mortality.


I agree...your doctor is wrong.

[Omlette]

Hi there,

According to my endocrinologist people who have or are predisposed to diabetes do not need a lot of carbs in the morning. You might want to rethink how many carbs you are having in your shake.

I am pre-diabetic. I gestational and had to take insulin. You can pick up a blood glucose monitor at any pharmacy, wal-mart, etc. The machines are pretty cheap, but the strips are pricey.

To get a good base reading, I would take my morning BG before eating or drinking anything every day for a week. Then take it immediately before you eat, and 1 and 2 hours after eating. If you do this for a week, keeping your diet where it is right now, you will know what needs to change within it.

A.M. number should be below 100. Below 120 is acceptable.
2 hours after meals, you want your numbers to be below 140, but closer to 100 is better.

My cholesterol has just about always been around 200. My doc's like that my ratios are good. So, they are not too worried about my overall number. My HDL is usually in the 60's. You might want to find a doc that agrees more with the higher cholesterol thinking.

Hope that helps.

[mcsblues]

Thanks, Malcolm! I am definitely worried about the BG/A1c numbers. I've been very surprised by these numbers from the beginning. Like I said, I don't eat anything high carb any more and these readings are still elevated. One thing I don't understand is why fewer meals might be helpful?
It may not be, but almost constant low level stimulation of BG/insulin response might be a factor, and it will also make it difficult for you to assess what it is your body may be responding to. Diabetics find it is not just the content but the timing of meals that impact on their levels - for example a high fasting level can be an example of what is known as the "dawn phenomenon" - where the body actually raises BG levels - and this can be countered with both the timing and content of the last meal/snack of the day as well as curtailed by the timing of your breakfast meal. You aren't in the diabetic range, but similar factors may still apply.

You're basically saying that I need to better understand my body's responses to my food intakes, and change them accordingly. That seems like a reasonable idea. Any further insight into the details of BG monitoring? You're talking about one of those pin-prick devices, right? (I'm completely clueless here!) I assume these are available in any decent pharmacy.I'm not sure how things work where you are, but here the pin prick devices are fairly cheap and easily available - the testing strips can be quite expensive ... unless you are a diabetic, in which case the cost is subsidised - which is crazy I know! The normal tests (apart from fasting) are pre and 1 and 2 hour post meals - the 2 hour post meal test being critical (your BG should be close to normal again by then). As I said your eating regime might make those tests difficult (and you may end up with very sore fingers!) - but it would certainly pay to see what is actually going on.

When it comes to your exercise I like the way one of the mods here (Gabe) puts it ... I'm paraphrasing here, but basically you decide what you are going to eat (for your health), and then match your exercise to what you eat (not the other way around) Gabe will probably shoot me - I'm sure he puts it better, but you get the idea I hope. It may be that you will need to pay very close attention to your carb intake to get your BG down to healthy levels - if so that is the priority and the exercise program can be designed to match.

HTH

[samoore]

According to my endocrinologist people who have or are predisposed to diabetes do not need a lot of carbs in the morning. You might want to rethink how many carbs you are having in your shake.

Great advice. I've been taking it down over the last couple of months. The protein powder I have right now, Muscle Milk, has more carbs than I probably should have. And I've been making the shake with milk. I'll go back to a lower carb powder and water from now on.

I am pre-diabetic ... but closer to 100 is better.
This is all really helpful information for someone --- um, that would be me! --- who has no idea about any of this stuff. Thanks!

My cholesterol has just about always been around 200. My doc's like that my ratios are good. So, they are not too worried about my overall number. My HDL is usually in the 60's. You might want to find a doc that agrees more with the higher cholesterol thinking.
Yeah, that's a tough one. He's been my doc for the last 15 years and I'm actually friends with him besides. So that really stinks. I'm going to try an educational approach with him over the next year and see if I can enlighten him a bit. If it doesn't work, then I'm going to have to change doctors, unfortunately.

Hope that helps.
An amazing amount, thank you!

[samoore]

It may not be, but almost constant low level stimulation of BG/insulin response might be a factor, and it will also make it difficult for you to assess what it is your body may be responding to. Diabetics find it is not just the content but the timing of meals that impact on their levels - for example a high fasting level can be an example of what is known as the "dawn phenomenon" - where the body actually raises BG levels - and this can be countered with both the timing and content of the last meal/snack of the day as well as curtailed by the timing of your breakfast meal. You aren't in the diabetic range, but similar factors may still apply.
This is all very good information to chew on --- thanks! BTW, I drink a shake (3 carb, 20g protein) right before I go to bed. And I drink a shake (it will soon be the same!) right when I get up, which is when I go do my weight lifting for the day.

I'm not sure how things work where you are, but here the pin prick devices are fairly cheap and easily available - the testing strips can be quite expensive ... unless you are a diabetic, in which case the cost is subsidised - which is crazy I know! The normal tests (apart from fasting) are pre and 1 and 2 hour post meals - the 2 hour post meal test being critical (your BG should be close to normal again by then). As I said your eating regime might make those tests difficult (and you may end up with very sore fingers!) - but it would certainly pay to see what is actually going on.
Thanks for taking the time to provide the specifics. This gives me an idea of what I would be committing to if I decide to do this. (Which is sounding like a better idea all the time.)

When it comes to your exercise I like the way one of the mods here (Gabe) puts it ... I'm paraphrasing here, but basically you decide what you are going to eat (for your health), and then match your exercise to what you eat (not the other way around) Gabe will probably shoot me - I'm sure he puts it better, but you get the idea I hope. It may be that you will need to pay very close attention to your carb intake to get your BG down to healthy levels - if so that is the priority and the exercise program can be designed to match.
Thanks for these pointers. I lived through induction with <50g just fine. I'm a fairly hard-core carnivore. I don't have too many cravings for carbs. And I lifted through it all. I could continue to lift and run like I have been with this low level of carbs. I'm not a competitor or anything; no great need for a rush of carbs coursing through my body.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to respond!

[maxlharris]

I wrote about this in my journal, but it goes with the Gabe's Theory approach:
There is an hierarchy to activities you can do to stimulate fat loss. It works something like this (stolen completely from Alwyn Cosgrove):
Diet
Diet
Resistance
Intervals
Everything else, exercise wise.

You simply cannot out train a bad diet. Think on this. You have a bad diet. You eat McDonalds. Big Mac + Fries. To kill it, you're talking 2 hours in the gym. 2 HOURS. I dunno about you, but my current employer, my current wife, my current need for sleep, would not allow 2 hours just to stay even with lunch.

If you have the room for 2-3 workouts a week, and you are looking to dump body fat, you are best served by doing resistance training. You cause changes to your body that are most beneficial. Metabolically expensive.

If you have room for more, you're better served with intervals. They are, calorie for calorie, 9 times more effective than standard cardio. NINE TIMES!

If you have room for more, whatever you want to do is icing. Well, LC icing (that'd probably be a cream cheese frosting sweetened with SweetZFree or a whipped cream type thing).

Oh, one more thing. If you like the creaminess of dairy in your shake but do not like the carbs, when you cut the milk from it, maybe you can go like 7 ounces of water, 1 of heavy cream. Will give you some of that milky goodness without all of the milky carbs.

Just some thoughts.

Really, you're doing okay.

You might buy your doc Good Calories, Bad Calories or PPLP. Share the full knowledge of what you're up to. It's easy to be not in favor of a "fad" diet. It's a lot harder to be opposed to a nutrient dense diet that works with systems explained in a first year medical text. That's PP.

[samoore]

I completely follow everything that Alwyn Cosgrove says. I live by the programs in New Rules of Lifting. I read his blog every day. He's the man. He provided the programs that allowed me to lose 35 lbs of fat and gain 15 lbs of muscle in the last 10 months.

I'm going to see if I can clarify some things if I've been unclear. I've lost a lot of weight (fat) and am now working to put on muscle. I lift weights 4x/week and watch my food intake. When I eat McDonald's (through lack of planning), I only eat the meat from a burger. I follow Protein Power and try to keep below 80 carbs/day. When trying to gain weight I eat about 2700-3000 calories/day. When I'm trying to lose a bit of fat, I add 20 min of intervals 3x/week and cut calories to about 2100 calories/day.

I like your idea about cream instead of milk in the shake. I don't mind the calories (right now).

Yeah, I was thinking about sending the good doc a copy of Good Calories, Bad Calories. Seems like the right thing to do.