What's good for humans is good for pets?

[Jeanne Marie]

I have two birds that are my family and they get really good care, including being seen by a bird specialist vet.
She is always telling me to watch their fat-intake and they get their blood checked for cholesterol (total, I think) at their annual exams.
The other day she warned me that if I gave them scrambled eggs, (yeah, it sounds kind of perverted to give birds that, but they love it), to make sure I only gave them the egg white as the yolk has too much fat!

Now, I have to wonder, should I follow my instinct to keep my birds low carb or should I listen to the vet? Because I think she's following the same low-fat dogma for them as we ve had pushed on us.

Has anyone got any experience with low-carb vets?

[LisaS]

I think with birds you would have to get species-specific - as in what is the composition of their natural diet - which I don't know.

one can make arguments (and many do) about the proper macro basis for dogs and cats and if grains should play any part at all - but those are carnivores or at least omnivores.

You might do an internet search and see if there is any research on bird diets - esp. species specific (bird is such a large category) - I imagine cases could be made that African Greys and lovebirds have different ideal diets (just a wild-a$$ guess though)

[maxlharris]

Reminds me about Dr. Eades post on Foie Gras the other day. The Anthony Bourdain video talked about why gavard looks cruel to us, but it's more because we have no conception of duck/goose anatomy and are treating them like people.

The best move, as Lisa suggests, is to figure what their natural diet is like, and feed them that, or as close to it as you can. My cats are not eating mice, bugs, grass, birds and snakes (they hunt them with toys, and kill the bugs that get through the cracks). But they are eating a diet (Innova EVO) that is not entirely dissimilar to how a wild cat in a human free world would feed itself. Make no mistake. A cat is a carnivore. It might eat some grass to help push some the works along. Carnivores are less well adapted for grain than you or I.

[Jeanne Marie]

My bird's vet said that, in the wild, birds look for fat because that means they will live another day. But they probably don't count on getting it every day.
Cockatiels are omnivores; they scavenge the carcasses of animals and they eat fruit and seeds and nuts and whatever they can find.

One of my guys likes chicken (creepy!) and eggs and pretty much wants whatever I'm eating.
The other, the one I didn't raise but rescued from a bad home, is very limited in what he will eat, bird pellets and millet. He is much less healthy than the one who wants everything.:(
I never give them chocolate, alcohol or avocado (extremely toxic to a bird) but they get tastes of everything else.

[Gaelen]

Animal diets, and avian (bird) diets, should be as close as possible to what they'd eat in the wild with careful attention paid to their actual domesticated activity level (which is often far LESS active than it would be if they were truly wild and hunting/foraging for their food.)

I agree with LisaS--I'd do some serious research on avian diets, by species, before assuming that they should be 'low carb.' As you mention, cockatiels are ominvores and from what I know of their diets, they are NOT necessarily 'low carb' in the wild...or high fat, for that matter. I am a lot more familiar with non-human primate, dog, cat, rabbit and rodent dietary needs, and with large animals, but I expect that in the wild, a cockatiel is likely to get a lot more of the fruits/seeds/nuts than they get off scavenging carcasses; they aren't at the top of the scavenger chain so they have to yield a lot of the good stuff to bigger, heavier scavengers.

[mcsblues]

Hi Jeanne Marie,

I think you should ignore your specialist - as you say she sounds like a source of the sort of nonsense that us humans get from dieticians and the media.

Having said that, I can't think of a reason why you would want to feed your birds low carb - as the others have said, you want to try and match their natural (wild) diet as much as possible -'our' 'wild' diet is low carb, theirs isn't. AFAIK cockatiels like all Australian parrots will eat a wide variety of foods, but the basics are seeds (they will get plenty of fat from these) vegetables and fruit. I have never heard of, or seen, any parrots feeding on animal carcasses, so I would wonder about the source of this advice, but perhaps they will if nothing else is available. Eggs too, would not be a normal food source - and while I doubt the cholesterol is a concern, it certainly is possible as other naturally vegetarian animals like rabbits can be affected by high cholesterol (as they are not evolved to cope with it).

If I were you I'd do a search, particularly of Australian sites - as us Aussies have been breeding and keeping these birds as pets for a long time, and with all due respect to your 'expert':p - would have a better idea of how these birds live in the wild.

A couple (of many) from a quick search;

http://www.quarrion.com/feeding.htm
http://www.burkesbackyard.com.au/2003/archives/2003/roadtests/birds/cockatiels

[Gabriel Guzman]

I couldn't find the exact reference but I remember a book from an author that described experiments with birds fed fat. The whole thing had to do with one of the theories that try to explain the evolution of the human brain... due to an increase in the amount of fat in the diet, according to that theory. So, the experiment with birds showed an increase development in the birds fed with more fat than those that weren't. I know... it's a bit off topic but I thought I'd share it anyway.

I don't think that what's good for humans is good for pets as a general rule. The problem is that not everybody agrees on what's 'good' for us. As suggested before, the closest to their natural diet, probably the better, which probably boils down to how their physiology is designed. On that note, by the way, I read a study a few years back in which obese dogs (Beagles) were fed a diet quite high in protein (compared to the amount found in commercial dog food). If memory serves, the amount of protein was close to 50% of the calories in the food. As expected, the dogs on such diet lost weight while the dogs in commercial dog food didn't lose as much. In that case, it seems that what's good for us is good for our dogs as long as it is not carb-laiden. After all, both our digestive physiology is very similar.

[chip]

I have two birds that are my family and they get really good care, including being seen by a bird specialist vet.
She is always telling me to watch their fat-intake and they get their blood checked for cholesterol (total, I think) at their annual exams.
The other day she warned me that if I gave them scrambled eggs, (yeah, it sounds kind of perverted to give birds that, but they love it), to make sure I only gave them the egg white as the yolk has too much fat!

Now, I have to wonder, should I follow my instinct to keep my birds low carb or should I listen to the vet? Because I think she's following the same low-fat dogma for them as we ve had pushed on us.

Has anyone got any experience with low-carb vets?

I'm a veterinarian, have been in practice 23 years. But I'm not a bird specialist. I do treat birds mainly because no other vet in my area will see them. What I've found is the main cause of disease in birds is their diet. Commercial seed diets contain too much sunflower seed. And birds love the sunflower seeds the most. The common result is fatty liver syndrome. I tell bird-owners to avoid seed mixtures that are high in sunflower seeds. When I go to seminars the specialists say the same thing. What do wild birds eat? Some seeds picked up from wild plants but a lot of insects. My guess is insects make up the majority of what wild birds eat. I tell clients to grind up dry dogfood and mix with their bird seed. That way at least the birds are getting some protein.

So my advice is avoid feeding the yolks. Save them for yourself.