question about low carb eating and explosive muscle contraction type sports(karate)

[simple33332003]

Hi I did low carb eating in the past and was successfull at it however I fell off the lifestyle and would like to get back into eating this way again.

However, I have a concern regarding martial arts or explosive muscle contraction type of sports and the low carb eating lifestyle.

I started training karate a few months ago and find that class is approximatly 1 hour 30 minutes and also uses alot of drills like jumping, plyometrics, sparring, punches , and kicks that require a lot of explosive type of muscle contractions.

Does anyone have any experience in martial arts training or competition while on a low carb diet? What is it like do you have energy to train and compete? do you experience any cramping?

or anyone have any ideas ?

Can I be on a low carb type of eating lifestyle and train in martial arts?

[Mitra]

Simple, my yoga practice doesn't call for explosive muscle contraction, so I haven't dealt with this issue personally. An interview with Stephen Phinney and Eric Westman (http://hoe.kgnu.net/hoeradioshow.php?show_id=184) describes the experience of a group of trained cyclists on a low carb diet. It took several weeks to adapt fully, and when they did their overall performance was just as good as on their previous high carb diet, but they did find they lacked some of the explosive power for the occasional rapid acceleration. I don't know what the recommendation is to get the benefits of eating low carb without having that effect - maybe someone more knowledgeable about sports nutrition will drop in and help you with that.

[maxlharris]

The Munster is a user on this board who does CrossFit training and martial arts on a low carb regime. I wish I could keep up with the munster.

Study suggests there's a period of adjustment.

I lift explosively (sometimes), but couldn't compare to not LC, since I never lifted much before.

[lczeledoc]

After a period of adjustment, about a month for me, I was able to continue doing my explosive weight lifting as I did before LC. My workouts are not long, 30-40 minutes max. I have heard from others that they notice a drop in performance with longer workouts while LCing.

[laughingW]

All the clean-eating martial artists I know, just add more quality fibrous carbs when they need more carb-based fuel. Like yams and quinoa. But even more important is to be free from fuel crashes at all.

There is the adaptation period to being a good fat burner.

Much of the conventional wisdom that "burst sports need sugar fuel" is because for 30 years we've studied intramuscular glycogen, and not much on intramuscular triglycerides. See what Stephen Finney says about the original runner studies and glucose.

From MA Coach Scott Sonnon's RMAX forum. He's talking about meal timing but actually about being ready to GO at any time, and not hobbled by a fuel crash....


In the research I've done into other cultures, and in the experiences I've personally had, meal skipping is an episodic, not constant one. For the hunter/gatherer (and for the operator and athlete), there are episodes where meal skipping is required (i.e. hunting/gathering, travel, mission, or competition). These episodes are broken up with long periods of scheduling constancy, especially in our culture (so-called "civilization" http://www.rmaxinternational.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ). Even in other cultures this was/is true, for instance 40% of the daily time of !Kung bushmen is devoted to "visiting" (hanging out with friends and family). Not a lot of time out there hunting and gathering at all!!

But when duty calls, the Bushman can go out on a hunt for 8-12 hours without food or water, and without any insulin crashes. Why because they've trained their cells to burn fat, not sugar.

Now, compare that to the meager 5% of time Americans have ("free" time). That's why Americans get confused about their blood sugar. They're so damned busy that they create sugar dependency because their schedule never changes (so they never become aware of the dependency)... except on "vacation" when they overeat themselves into coma.

It has been my experience that athletes who take a foundational nutrition approach of front-loading meals (no sugar, hi protein, hi complex carb diet) under a consistent schedule arrive the day of and have no appetite. The pre-event athletic appetite suppression is a sign that your system is prepared for the "hunt" - for the episode of not-eating. It switches to a handful of fruit and nuts and a large dinner until the 'episode' ceases - which in my opinion is how the "Warrior Diet" has gotten misunderstood and misappropriated to the times of scheduling constancy when the "hunt" ends. What makes a "warrior" is not how he performs when duty calls, but how he has prepared consistently over times that he's not active. Please consider this point thoroughly. It's analogous to thinking you should only train the way athletes perform when they're at their peak. Peaks are built by valleys, ascents and descents. Don't try to perform (or eat) like you're always standing on the summit!

The point is how enslaved is your schedule to sugar?! Your nutrition should be built from the ground up so that you have the biochemical agility to suddenly alter your schedule for episodes of need whether occupational, recreational, vocational or mortal. If you're an athlete, you need, absolutely need, to retrain your cells to burn fat not sugar. Your nutrition should give you a springboard to change your schedule at any moment, without some tumultuous insulin crash due to sugar dependency.

[The Munster]

Simple,

I've tried many low carb/no carb diets (The Zone, Protein Power, Anabolic Diet) and this is what I've found in relation to exercise, strength, stamina and explosiveness. Your body will burn what you give it and become efficient at mostly burning what you give it the most of.

Like others have already mentioned, after an adjustment period (getting off the crack) of the body switching from a mostly carb burning machine to a mostly fat burning machine, your body will have no trouble performing and doing so explosively on a low carb diet.

In addition, you should find you can perform at an elevated intensity level for longer running on better fuel (fat). Be sure and review pages 280-282 in Protein Power Lifeplan. It goes over why fat is a better fuel source than carbs in relation to exercise, and how the burning of carbs for fuel quickly leads to the build up of lactic acid within the muscle, inducing "the burn" which stops many athletes from being able to continue.

Bottom line, eat the way you know you should for better health and your performance will be fine.

Just my .02.

Matt

[simple33332003]

Everyone, thank you for all your responses.

I did reread pages 280-282 of the Protein Power Lifeplan book.

What is written there give me a lot of hope.

Its really something I have to try to overcome all the years of brain washing of how we are brainwashed to think that for explosiveness we need the glycotic energy producing pathways and need to eat carbs.

the pages 280 - 282 seem to state that it may be possible to fuel explosive workout in a superior fashion with fats.

this gives me great hope. I thank you all .

Just a question of eating during say a all day tournament. What would you eat during that day? for example for a non low carb high carb eater they might eat fruits or drink gatoraide or some carbo replacement type of meals.

On the low carb lifestyle what would you eat during that day of the tournament? nuts? cheese?

[The Munster]

For an all day tournament where, I assume, you'll be expending, resting, expending, resting, etc. etc., I would make sure to snack often on almonds, walnuts, fruits, maybe some string cheese, jerky, etc. Hydrate with water or better yet Emergen-C.

I wouldn't make a BIG switch on macronutrient ratios on the day of a big event, but maybe slightly more carbs, approaching but not necessarily reaching a more Zone like ratio for that day (40c30p30f).

[maxlharris]

Hrm. I'm a big protein shake drinker when I'm on my game. But if we're fat burning, that might not be the best solution (I'm talking ready to drink shakes, not the mix your own). You'd want some fast fats, with not much carb and probably not a whole ton of protein. Sounds like cottage cheese to me. If we're talking protein, I'm going with the shake or with jerky. But that's me. Others will have other ideas.

[Gaelen]

I wouldn't make a BIG switch on macronutrient ratios on the day of a big event, but maybe slightly more carbs, approaching but not necessarily reaching a more Zone like ratio for that day (40c30p30f).

Well, for anyone who is really low carbing, trying to approach that 40c/30p/30f ratio likely would be a big switch on macronutrient ratios.

Just an example: my macronutrient ratios (percentages of calories consumed) at maintenance/transition carb levels around 50-60g ECC/day are closer to 15c/30p/60f. Sometimes they vary to 15c/35p/55f, but you get the idea...much heavier on fat (the anticipated fuel source) than either protein or carbs, and always at least twice as high a percentage of protein as of carbs. If I were eating 1600 calories a day at the Zone's 40/30/30 ratio, that would be 165g carbs, 120g protein and 53g fat. On low carb maintenance (my ratios), that's more like 60g carbs, 120g protein, 106g fat.

No, I'm not doing 'explosive muscle activity.'
But the Zone's 40/30/30 ratios are approximately double the carb intake (or more) of low carb maintenance, and less than half the fat intake. It would be a major macronutrient shift to go in the Zone's direction, basically veering off-plan for your event day.

Mileage will vary. ;)

[The Munster]

Like I said, approaching, but not reaching, a Zone like ratio.

And, we're talking about big event day (specific to Simple's question--an all day tournament where he will be expending a massive amount more energy than any other "normal" day--likely participating in 4-10 or more intense workouts in a single day).

Slightly upping carbs, so long as ample proteins and fats are also consumed, will provide a little bit more fast burn fuel without taking the body completely out of positive fat burning mode.

But, that is all just my opinion, which is formed from my own experience and performance, and is not necessarily backed up by anything scientific.

Again, my .02, for what it's worth (hopefully at least .02, lol).

Matt