Children on the program?

[zip11777]

I was recently advised by my Dr. to go on a program like Protein Power. I have read the Protein Power book, and it seems like I need to change some major paradigms. As the father of 2 young kids that love to eat pastas, breads ,cereal...you name, i am looking for any advise you can give me regarding menus that a re good for my low-carb needs as wel as the needs of growing children. I hate to run the kitchen like a diner, I am looing for fod we can all benefit from.

[Gaelen]

Zip, I've moved your post to this forum, which has several threads that may help you out. Welcome in, and enjoy!

[Billie]

As parents we have this strange mind set don't we, that if we don't give our kids pastas or breads or cereals or treats we are somehow being inhumane to them. What is good for you to eat is certainly good for your children. Making sure they get adequate protein, starting them on great yummy veggies and fruits, sure give the kids whole grains and you stay away from them :) but absolutely don't run your house like a diner. Too many of us parents do that and did that and we didn't bother to teach the kids why we eat certain things, why things with color, like vegetables and fruits are packed with antioxidants and vitamins and why things like pasta and bread and cereal, kind of that no color look, just really don't cut it.

Protein is a great start for the day, nourishing their muscles and brains. You are right this is alll about a paradigm shift

It is amazing how kids will change their eating habits, WHEN WE ALLOW them too!

Good luck! Welcome aboard, your doc is right, listen to him, join him, lots of information and great support.

[zip11777]

Billie-

I think I am more concerned about thier missing our on carbs they may need? or nutrients in those breads and pastas that a growing body may need.
Also, I am having a real hard time thinking of how to explain to them that all of a sudden Orange Juice is not healthy, because it has a lot of carbs.

[Jingles]

How about having the orange, which has fiber and no added sugar instead of the juice?

My kids already know that sugar makes them even more hyper and then really tired afterwards. I inform them that it's ok to have sugary things once in a while, but if you have it all the time, then it just loses something. So, when I point out how much sugar is in things, or even better, have them read the label, I don't have to say anything usually about their choice of fruit or juice (now my husband is a different matter! :tongue: :rolleyes: ).

It's in small portions, but I'm slowly re-educating my children to make healthier choices so they hopefully won't have the same health challenges that I do. They actually prefer speghetti (sp?) squash to regular pasta! :D

That came about because we had a tasting night where they HAD to try something new, and I wouldn't tell them what it was until after dinner. They have discovered that there are a lot of things they like, that at first they would turn up their noses at ... and a few things that they still don't. Oh, I did that by pointing out that their taste buds change every 12 days and they have to keep tasting things to see if their taste have changed, or grown up yet :D .

Hope something there helps.

[Billie]

Zip-- carbs they may need can be found in vegetables and fruits...some of which are loaded with carbs, PLUS have all the vitamins and antioxidants that are much better for them as well. Carbs are not necessary for good health, at least empty carbs that are loaded with sugar etc. As I said earlier if your kids can handle and you are fine with multigrains that give them additional carbs in that respect.

But really what is in pasta and breads? What is what brings those foods to the forefront for parents, at least for me, sometimes gosh I hate to say this it was convenience. Much easier to serve a bowl of cereal for breakfast then make them an omelet or do some brown rice with raisins. Gabe had made a great food chart for kids, maybe I can get him to post it here for you and you can put it on your refrigerator, or somewhere you can talk about good health and eating, us parents have alot of responsibility in that arena.

But don't equate the need for carbs with good health, that is that thinking that needs to be changed, those paradigms shifts you spoke about earlier. And I know it is hard going.

Another source here on the board that I would point you to is the reference section and don't miss the recipes either, lots of great information.

If I am not answering your question correctly give us some more information. Like maybe what do your kids eat and what do you want them to eat, there lots resources here as I said to help.

OJ is not healthy because it is has alot of sugar in it and we tend to drink way too much of it. Instead of a large glass of OJ give them a smaller glass, do some changes that way, kind of subtle. OR as jingles said let them eat the orange or apples or best raspberries, strawberries, much better than anything processed.

I know it is hard, and kids AND adults have a hard time with changes even though they know it is best. Don't try to do it overnight though and then if it doesn't work say I tried, keep making small changes, introducing them to healthy eating is just about the greatest gift you can give them I think.

Good Luck!

[laughingW]

Billie-

I think I am more concerned about thier missing our on carbs they may need? or nutrients in those breads and pastas that a growing body may need.
Also, I am having a real hard time thinking of how to explain to them that all of a sudden Orange Juice is not healthy, because it has a lot of carbs.
There is nothing in grains that is not also in meat and veggies and fresh fruit. In fact when I was doing my own researches and looking at things with Fitday to see if I was getting nutrients, the main thing cereals offer is a lot of starch calories. the other nutrients are much smaller than in other food groups, per volume of food. You could still serve whole grains but make them a much smaller part of the meal. half a tennis ball instead of the whole plate for example.

As to the OJ, I would serve fresh orange slices. It's great chilled with pineapple or banana, my DD loved that for breakfast. And just say to the kids that a giant glass of OJ is like 5 oranges at once and it's not so good for us.

[arc]

My whole family eats low carb, including my two boys (ages 9 and 12). We have been eating that way for 4+ years now. We do allow them occasional treats, which seems to make them a little more compliant the rest of the time. They are active and healthy, so no harm done there, I believe.

One thing that we do, though, is have a "boy's choice" night, usually Friday, where they chose their meal (they alternate weeks in who gets to choose). They normally pick something carby, like mac and cheese or spaghetti. I figure one meal a week isn't going to hurt them and I feel it will help to keep them from going face first into the junk when they get older and more on their own.

[Inez]

Kids absolutely don't need bread or pasta, but they're definitely going to miss it and rebel if you take it away too quickly. Provide lots of good alternatives and take away the bread and pasta and snacks slowly. Also, you can allow them more slack than you allow yourself -- unless they have serious weight problems, they can eat fruit and whole grains and whole milk. Also, I've learned to sometimes revert to childlike behavior myself -- if they ask me why they can't have something, I make a face and say with exaggerated horror, "because it's got lots of nasty carbs and sugar in it and Mama hates carbs!" That appeals to them better than a nutrition lecture.

[Eddie Friedman]

My wife and I eat LC. I follow (with a bit of exception,) paleo & IF. Healthy nutrition is a passion.

As infants, our kids loved Vita-mix preps of organic veggies. They get a packed lunch every day instead of school lunch. At parties, we try to keep them sane by allowing what other kids' moms are serving, with some limitations. (eg; They've never had soda, but usually will have pizza, some of the cake, etc.)

They (7 y.o. twin boys,) are really (!) starchy carb oriented ! They refuse to eat veggies, notwithstanding every form of presentation to make them yummy. ( My wife is a GREAT cook.) One of our sons is overweight and seems to have other related issues, (eg; skin eruptions, sleep interuption, etc.) I have shared with our sons that Daddy was an overweight boy who ate the wrong way, and that I owe my robust good health (Thank G-d !) to finding a better way. I've offered $10. to eat a stalk of broccoli, etc.


Any tips ?

All the best,

Eddie

[gator8me]

Eddie~
I'm sorry I don't have any tips other than what you've already tried for the finiky eaters. I've been lucky in that my kids will eat whatever is fixed. Are your kids old enough to help you fix meals or even fix simple meals themselves? I've noticed that since mine have found an intrest in cooking and watching the Food Network that they are more interesting in trying new and different things. Things that they may have never thought of trying or may have thought ICK if I had tried it first. lol.

Also, how really overweight is your one son? Some children no matter what they eat have that baby fat that hangs around. My youngest did and she wasn't really "overweight" and as she got older she grew taller but not wider and so was stretched out you might say.

Sorry I'm not really much help. Keep trucking on with trying to ingrain in them good eating habits and it will pay off in the future.
Ally

[Ammy]

I don't have kids, and so have never experienced any of this...but what if you had a garden and taught them how wonderful it is to grow the food you're going to eat? Get them excited about it and the VOILA! One day they have "eat of the stalk" stuff like snap peas and raspberries??

[WakefieldWendy]

I think that children's metabolism's can handle a lot more than ours. So my feeling is that children can eat carbs, so long as they are getting sufficient protein and fat and fruits and vegetables.

So what about simply altering portions. Have a small serving of whole wheat or spinach pasta, with a large serving of sauce with meat and veggies. Or a single piece of toast with peanut butter with scrambled eggs. Or ricotta pancakes with raspberry sauce instead of flour pancakes with fake syrup. (And as a Canadian I'd add - if they must eat syrup, get real maple instead of the fake stuff made with corn syrup - at least it has more fructose and more taste so you need less).

Pizza can also be reasonably healthy, if you put lots of toppings on it so they don't eat too many slices, and maybe serve it with salad or veggies and dip. Children really shouldn't eat aspartame (my DW is a cognitive scientist and a teacher with special ed qualifications and is always talking about brain development) but there are splenda sweetened pops. Or allow them one glass a week and make it a float flavour by mixing it with milk. (As a side note, we were allowed pop once per week, and my two brothers and I would split a 710 ml bottle - so a lot of the problem today is portions).

Good luck!

[Eddie Friedman]

Hello Ladies,

Thank you all for taking the time and care to reply. Each of you offered excellent information.

My wife has included the boys in the "Joys of Cooking" and it has had some effect. She has a professional practice so balanncing time to do this, along with quickly getting meals prepared, is a challenge. This is an excellent approach on many levels. Bonding, teaching competence in the kitchen and generally, bringing to life nutritional "theory", etc. It still has not had the effect I'd like.

My wife has done things like adding (covertly ; ] ) blended mixed veggies into gravy, made almond flour for baking etc. Great idea, I love her for putting the care in, but still to limited effect.

Gardening is also a great idea and something else my wife has tried, again, subject to time constraints and limited effect. I never gardened and feel awkward with this, and have done little to push myself to learn. So, I have dropped the ball on this approach.

I understand that all these approaches can add up overtime and perhaps we are building a great foundation without me even realizing it. The mention of "baby fat" is interesting. At their last physical, the doctor told me, (through what he showed are highly reliable graphs,) that both boys will be big men ( one 6'2"-6'4", the other about an inch shorter.) So, I can see the heavy son stabilizing his weight and "growing into it". I confess to impatience and concern about him having overweight and excessive abdominal fat for any period of time.

I guess my main frustration is that, notwithstanding all the above mentioned approaches, they don't care for veggies and only a couple types of fruit. ( The thinner child has had a couple painful constipation episodes. I tell him this may be a sign that he needs more veggies. He says, "yes dad, may I have some mac & cheese ? " ) I see other kids, ironically from families that don't care much about nutrition, who are much more open to veggies.

Well, I hope it is like watching grass grow. Perhaps you can't see the change until you leave for awhile, but when you return it's up to your knees.

Thank you all again.

All the best,

Eddie

[Anniesnan]

At their last physical, the doctor told me, (through what he showed are highly reliable graphs,) that both boys will be big men ( one 6'2"-6'4", the other about an inch shorter.) So, I can see the heavy son stabilizing his weight and "growing into it". I confess to impatience and concern about him having overweight and excessive abdominal fat for any period of time.

I guess my main frustration is that, notwithstanding all the above mentioned approaches, they don't care for veggies and only a couple types of fruit. ( The thinner child has had a couple painful constipation episodes. I tell him this may be a sign that he needs more veggies. He says, "yes dad, may I have some mac & cheese ? " ) I see other kids, ironically from families that don't care much about nutrition, who are much more open to veggies.

Eddie

Eddie,

I read your first post a couple of times, as I was confused. Your boys (including the one who is heavier) are 7 still? What has me so confused is when you were talking about skin eruptions. I'm assuming you mean pimples. 7 year olds don't usually get pimples, even if they are overweight. Usually the pimples start with puberty. None of my children developed early, but I'd ask your doc about the eruptions.
Unless you mean "prickly heat" types of skin eruptions?


As for veggies - I have 3 children (and one granddaughter). Major picky eaters, and they got it from me. One trick we discovered with our boys was they loved cheese. They would try almost anything if it had cheese on it - including broccoli, which they ended up eating w/o cheese, too.
If they like mac & cheese, add veggies to it. Although my middle one, Daddy of her royal highness of picky grandchildren, would then not eat the mac & cheese.

We served them spaghetti squash, but told them it was spaghetti. All 3 ate it - said they didn't care for the new spaghetti - but they ate it.

They also ate raw veggies with a dip (cheese, sour cream, yogurt). Celery with peanut butter.

Sometimes reverse psychology works, too. Maybe have a separate dinner only for "grown-ups".

Good luck!

[Eddie Friedman]

Hi Anniesnan,

Thanks for taking the time and care to reply.

Yes, "skin eruptions" are what I would call "pimples", as well as "blackheads". ( Even in his ears ! ) Yes, I know this is most often a teenager issue. We did bring it to our pediatrician's attention. He said that he had the same problem himself at the same age, and that it just went away. ( We have even taken him to a pediatric dermatologist who did a -somewhat painful- procedure to remove many of the blackheads, and aside from nightly cleansing with astringent, had no systemic, ie; nutritional, etc., suggestion.)

I feel for this son so much. He has a number of challenges. It feels like we've "tried everything". ( At the same time, I realize that everything is relative and we have so much to be thankful for, some have it tremendously more difficult, etc., its just that naturally we want to help our son enjoy optimal wellness.) Additionally, he's had some "pre-asthma" episodes. Through my wife being meticulous with trying to get optimal nutrition into him, he has not had to use any medication or inhaler treatment for almost 1 year, until last night. After an evening of playing with some friends, he suddenly began wheezing. This on top of developing "dog allergy" symptoms, (so now those friends' house is off-limits,) which included an eye so swollen it looked like he got hit by a line-drive baseball ! (Amazing, to me anyway, as we owned a dog from his birth until his age 3. Although he was not around any dog from ages 3-6, last year, when he was exposed again, he developed this sort of extreme reaction.)

As far as the cheese, well, he has a (Allergy doctor tested,) dairy allergy. His fraternal twin brother, lean, clear skin, gets to "eat anything" without (externally manifesting,) negative symptoms. So, we give him (the allergic son,) rice cheese, and he eats it, but it certainly is not as enjoyable as dairy cheese. ( Not to mention the challenge at birthday parties, where dairy cheese pizza is the ubiquitous offering, followed by dairy cake, etc.)

And yes, my wife has also traveled down the spaghetti squash road, even enlisting the boy's assistance in making it. Its a fun project, but wheat pasta still "wins" on "taste", at least to our 7 y.o.'s "taste bugs", as they have called it.

So, he/we are dealing with his: overweight, intense hunger/moodiness,(like low-blood sugar symptoms,) skin eruptions, asthma-like pre-disposition, dairy allergy, dog allergy, not infrequent disturbed sleep, night-fears. ( All of which his fraternal twin brother has none of ! )

I/we are trying to figure out if there is a unifying thread to this constellation of symptoms, or even to the preponderance of them. ( ie; if everything got better but he was still, as an isolated factor, allergic to dogs, O.K., that might make sense.)

I/we are determined to "solve this mystery".

I appreciate the insights and input from the fine folks here.

All the best,

Eddie

[lczeledoc]

Eddie,

Do you give your children any Omega-3 supplements? I think it might help. Have you tried giving them protein shakes?

I do that with my carb-addict 8 year old daughter--frozen berries, whey powder, and a little bit of milk. She also, hates vegetables. she'll grudgingly eat carrots. It kind be very frustating at times. Her mother is vegetarian, with diabetes. Eats low fat and high carb. And she wants to feed our daughter the same. It frustates me. She my daughter is with me on weekends I feed her meat, she likes grilled chicken breast and hamburgers. I also give her fish oil supplements. She has ADD like symptoms, which I attribute to her high sugar diet. also, she is sick constantly. And her mother fails to see the connection between her crappy diet and health!

My 10 month baby gril she is a different story, this one is devloping good nutrional habits from the beginning. Meat, veggies, fruits, no cereals. She loves greens. And she really loves meat, all kinds.

[Eddie Friedman]

Hi Iczeledoc,

Thanks for the reply. I have to ask my wife about the Omega-3 supplementation. If she is not, sounds like a great idea, but it is unlikely she's overlooked it. As far as protein shakes, the boy who has the greater struggles in the nutrition/weight area, definitely has them. ( "PaleoMeal" by Design for Health, organic berries & water. )

Sounds like you have 2 great daughters. It is a wonderful challenge trying to raise kids in the healthiest way, yes?

All the best,

Eddie

[back2me2007]

My whole family eats low carb, including my two boys (ages 9 and 12). We have been eating that way for 4+ years now. We do allow them occasional treats, which seems to make them a little more compliant the rest of the time. They are active and healthy, so no harm done there, I believe.

One thing that we do, though, is have a "boy's choice" night, usually Friday, where they chose their meal (they alternate weeks in who gets to choose). They normally pick something carby, like mac and cheese or spaghetti. I figure one meal a week isn't going to hurt them and I feel it will help to keep them from going face first into the junk when they get older and more on their own.

I'm going to use your boys choice idea! Excellent idea!!:D

[David59]

Slow changes was the key for me. I slowly removed the chips, cookies, high carb breads, ice cream, potatos, pastas and other treats. If it's not in the house they don't eat it. I increased more protein into there diets, more fruits and veggies. They are eating fish now, (didn't before) still having a hard time with some veggies. Working on the poptarts for breakfast they can't seem to live without. But I did get my 12 yo son to try a whey protein shake this morning and he liked it!! He looks at lables now and counts the carbs!! At school he got a hamburger and fries and traded the fries to someone for a piece of fruit, and thru the bun away. I am still in shock, hard to believe. Still have aways to go. I still give them treat, like low carb yogurts, (3 gm carb Dannon) and ice pops (8 gm carbs) and they seem happy with that.