High BP

[dvdmon]

Well, I think I finally need to take my elevated BP more seriously. I just went to the red cross to donate blood and they got a reading of 151/110, then another of like 170/102. When I got home I decided to try it with the monitor we have at home. I rested a bit first, and took it a few times, trying to rest for 5-10 minutes in between measurents. It averaged around 150/100. It also didn't seem to go down much with each measurement.

I've had slightly elevated BP for a few years, but it was usually maybe 130-135/80-85. In the last year or so that went up a bit, but still not over 140/95. When I started losing weight again back in November, I thought that would really help, and it seemed to a little. I also started intermittent fasting several weeks later and because those who do a CRON diet have experienced big decreases in their heart rate and bp, I thought I might have some similar benefits. Well, I've lost over 20 lbs, but it seems like my BP has gone UP, not down!

Now, I have been drinking coffee over the past month, and this morning I didn't drink coffee, but had about .75 liters of herbal tea that supposedly has caffein, but not sure how much, since it's not pure tea (the tea isn't decaffeinated). I started a new job about a month ago and it was very stressful the first week or two, but it's gotten a lot better in the last couple of weeks. Finally, I've not had the chance to do much exercise over the last month. I had been walking almost every day, but the new job has made that difficult and I've only been able to get to the gym a couple of times in the last month, and then gotten some exercise shoveling snow yesterday and a couple of weeks ago. Of course there is carrying my increasingly heavy daughter around too! :)

So I have factors that might be relevant to it rising:


increased caffein consumption
less exercise
too much weight lifting? (dd)I'm just wondering if that's enough to increase it to such an extent?

Also, I've been using primarily lite salt lately, but I wonder if I should just use no-salt or not use salt at all. I've not been good about taking supps lately, so I'm going to try to take a few hundred mg of potassium and my magnesium religiously, go work out every day I can, and maybe look into meditating (!).

Other than these things, is there anything else I can do outside of going on meds? That is my last option as far as I'm concerned, I want to exhaust all other possibilities. I figure if I can try all the non-medical remedies for a month or two and still don't see any improvement, well, I've done all I can.

The other issue around this that I know plays some part is hydration. I have never been the best about this. I've sometimes been able to drink a decent amount of water, but usually not. Recently I haven't been drinking anything but coffee and herbal tea (mostly the decaffeinated kind). So I guess one of my other goals should be to drink at least 1.5 liters of water per day, hopefully more.

Any other things that folks can suggest?

[SherryJ]

Ohhhh, Levi, I know nothing to tell you...

...except that I hope you find an answer!

Sherry

[Gaelen]

Levi...
Lose the salt, all of it. Even the 'lite' stuff. I never add salt, and I will now notice an increase in my BP just from eating salty foods...I try to stay under 1500mg salt per day, and without adding any, I often get that much just from my diet.

I actually don't worry too much about the caffeine now, but at this point my BP sometimes dips too low. When I was on the chemo meds and it was soaring to heights like 170/110, I ditched the caffeine, and that did help. However, it takes more than a month to see results from just caffeine reduction/elimination.

Exercise, meditation or any kind of structured relaxation and adequate hydration are definitely players in BP regulation--if I skip walking, reduce water intake or do not consciously make an effort to 'slow down and collect myself,' I see almost instant rise in BP levels over 3-5 days of not paying attention to these details.

Cinnamon has helped me, a lot. I put it in my morning shake (or tea, or coffee.) I put it in my afternoon coffee--decaf. I mix it into just about anything--but I really like cinnamon. You only need to get 1/2 teaspoon or so to see benefits according to the published studies (I actually posted about them during last summer's 'learn something' challenge, when I was focused on using herbs/spices to improve health, so look for my thread in that challenge.)

As for meds...I actually had to be on them from November, 2004 through about May, 2005. It took a lot to regulate my pressure, but the chemo, especially the Avastin, was a serious culprit and as soon as I stopped that, my pressure normalized. But my mom has chronically high BP, has had for 45+ years. So does her brother, so did her sister, so did her mom. I have a matrilineal tendency there that I have to keep an eye on, but meds do keep her BP normal (or at least, normal for her.) And they did normalize me. And they weren't the worst meds I was taking... ;)

As for taking your pressure, to get some more meaningful baselines, take it first thing in the a.m. -- laying down, in bed, BEFORE YOU GET UP, drink anything or start moving around. Take it 15-30 minutes after exercising. Take it in the middle of the day, when you're sitting down. Take it at night, when you're laying down ready for bed. Keep track of those 3-4 readings per day for a week or two, and see if you notice patterns (it helps if you have an automated cuff and keep it handy.) In fact, don't get a cuff that you have to inflate yourself, because you don't want to be working while taking your pressure, or talking, or moving around in any way. Look for something (I have a wrist cuff with a 40-reading memory) that self-inflates with the press of a button. It was $25 bucks, an Omron from QVC. Any drugstore or Walmart sells reliable ones, too.

Keep in mind that it's normal to be more elevated in the middle of the day than when you're just waking up. Keep in mind that it's normal to be more elevated after exercise, but that you should return to a resting pulse rate relatively quickly. Do not take your BP with less than 15 minutes between readings--if you do, you'll be seeing vessel bounceback. Then the anxiety about the readings aggravates any tendency in your head toward white coat syndrome.

Hope this helps.

[Karole]

Gaelen, I'm glad to know that about the cinnamon in regards to bp.

I had a good reaction last time I did pp, and even got to cut my meds in half after just a short time. So far this time, I haven't noticed any drop yet, but keep hoping !!

As of today I will be adding at least 1/2 tsp. cinnamon to my daily intake as I would dearly love to lose the blood pressure meds if I can.

Levi, I hope you will be able to get your bp under control with all the various things you are trying and the things Gaelen mentioned. As I said the cinnamon thing is something I am more than willing to try--love the stuff anyway. Take care.

[Karole]

Levi, do you take aspirin, tylenol, advil or any other otc meds on an ongoing or daily basis? I just read on yahoo that they released a study about the effect that those meds have on bp--it can cause it to rise. I just thought I would mention that in case, for some reason, you are using one of these otc meds daily.

[dvdmon]

Ok, guys, thanks for your quick replies and helpful info! An update:

I did some research after posting and saw mention of various herbs that might be helpful so I went out and bought them, and took some with dinner tonight. They include dandelion root, kudzu, Hawthorne, garlic, and Valerian. I also took the supps that I already had which are also said to be helpful (potassium, magnesium, E, C, and Co-Q10). I also used only nu-salt (which is only potassium) with dinner, drank almost 1.5 liters (so far) of water (actually SmartWater, which has a bit of potassium, magnesium, and calcium thrown in), and went to the gym and did about 50 minutes of walking with my heart rate between 120 and 135.

About an hour after dinner I took my bp again and saw a big drop! Over three measurements it averaged around 130/90!

So that was a big relief that I can get it down on my own. I do have a feeling that the hydration was a big part of it. I have to get much better at this. I picked up a bunch of smart water and I'm committing to drinking at least that 1.5 liter bottle during work each day, and if I finish it before the days end, refilling it with tap water and drinking more.

After posting this I'm going to go add some cinnamon to the mix. I wish I could tell what is helping the most because these herbs are pretty pricey! But I think priority is to get things down and stable for a while and then selectively remove different things for a week at a time.

Karole, no I don't take any of those meds. Once in a great while I'll take some Tylenol or Advil for back pain, but it's pretty rare. I generally try to stay away from most pharmaceuticals unless there's a very specific and acute need for them.

Gaelen, thanks for the advice on the cinnamon and also on the record-keeping. We do have an automated cuff that I bought from CVS last year. It seems to work well. I was talking with my wife before reading these responses and we both came to the conclusion that I should be testing myself regularly to see if these new remedies will have a beneficial and progressive effect. We decided on taking it when I get up, when I get home from work, and then again an hour or so after eating. I'm not sure about taking it before I get out of bed, but I suppose I can try it. I'm just afraid that my daughter, who can sometimes wake up before or at the same time as I do (she sleeps with us), will just want to play with the cuff and that won't work! Maybe my wife can take her out of the bedroom when we first get up if that happens, though. As for taking it in the middle of the day, I don't particularly want to bring the cuff into work where everyone will see it. It's one thing if I knew everyone there well, but as I said, it's a new job - only one month old - and I just don't feel comfortable sharing medical stuff at this early point.

Again, thanks for all your help and I'll keep you posted on
how the results come out!

[Gaelen]

Here's some more current info on cinnamon, since my post in the challenge really focused on lowered blood glucose rather than BP -- but cinnamon has been found to contribute to lowering both blood glucose AND BP. BTW, more cinnamon isn't necessaily better...depending on your size, between 1/4 and 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon powder appears to have the same effect as larger quantities.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?seq_no_115=183701

This may be the same study, just a different journalist's take on it:
http://www.npicenter.com/anm/templates/newsATemp.aspx?articleid=15531&zoneid=28

It appears that either whole/ground cinnamon, or cinnamon extract, are equally effective, and that cinnamon is effective in the presence and absence of sucrose consumption. Hope this helps...remember, as with all things still being tested, YMMV. ;)

[maxlharris]

Levi,

My wife, upon moving to here, has had chronically elevated BP. Somethings we've found that haven't been mentioned:

1- Get a hand grip device. One of those spring grips. It's something you can do at your desk while on the phone. A study cited in Men's Health found that increasing grip strength lowered BP by maybe 15/4 (working from memory). Here it is. In "European Journal of Applied Physiology" a report on an 8 week study showed that people doing handgrip exercises lowered their BP by 15/5. The Lead Author reports that the BP response to grip training is greater than aerobic exercise. Subjects went 2 minutes, 4 times a day, 3 days a week.

2- More water, less caffeine. Yeah.

3- Measure in the morning, before you eat anything, but pee first. This was found in a massive longitudinal study in Japan to be the most predictive measure for later problems.

4- Measuring regularly will decrease the stress of measuring (a problem my DW has). At the doc's office, it's a high stakes measurement, so it's inherently stressful (this was also found in the Japanese study). Demystify, and lower.

5- I think I also read that eating more red meat is good. Yeah, I have this study. Title: Dietary Protein from Lean Red Meat Lowers BP in Hypertensives.

6- Also, if you are not getting enough fiber, that should help.

[dvdmon]

Thanks for the references, Gaelen. I'm hoping that the reason cinnamon improves blood pressure is not due to it's lowering blood glucose levels, since as far as I know mine are already low.

Max, thanks for the tips. That's interesting about the hand grips! I may have to go looking for some. It seems a little odd, since weight-lifting is supposed to increase blood pressure. Then again, I guess the gripping is not really nearly as much exertion as regular resistance training...

[AT22]

Weightlifting increases BP for extended periods or just during and immediately after the weights? I have read that you can get elevated BP during (not breathing, stressing the body, etc)(but can work to avoid the elevation by controlling some of the factors that cause it - like breathing), but I haven't heard that it is something that elevates your BP for periods beyond the lifting session. Of course, I haven't researched this particular aspect.

BTW, I got a cheap but effective grip device at Target for $1. It's plastic and whatnot, but it adjusts so should be enough to exercise your grip.

[Gaelen]

Weightlifting increases BP for extended periods or just during and immediately after the weights?

AT22, it can do both...elevate temporarily and then for longer and longer periods after the workouts. People who've had intracerebral hemorrhages and strokes are usually cautioned against weight lifting forever after.

[lczeledoc]

Levi,

I have had chronic high BP, in the 140/90--150/95 range. About 9 months ago I started taking Fish Oil, about 10-12 grams (12 1,000 mg pills) a day. About 3 months ago I went to donate bood and had my BP checked----it was 120/70!!. I had seen that kind of BP since my time in the military, 23 years ago, when I was much thinner and was to running a lot. I had a medical check-up about 6 weeks ago---same BP reading. And it has been like that ever since. I can't say that the BP decrease was due to the fish oil. But considering that I didn't alter my lifestyle much during that time, I even gained about 15 lbs, I feel that the fish oil had something to do with it. I also lift weights.

[dvdmon]

lczeledoc, that's impressive, although that's a ton of fish oil! While I'm hopeful that it was a real drop, did you actually confirm it wasn't an anomaly by testing it yourself over an extended period? I don't always trust the person taking it or the reading itself because it seems there are so many variable that can make the reading innacurate. I'm now taking my own bp 3 times a day via an automatic device, so there's less chance for human error. I'm doing it the same way each time, so even if it's not totally accurate, it should show an accurate pattern over an extended period... The other thing I've realized, with the help of some of you, is that BP is probably something some of us should be measuring on a regular basis just to keep ourselves honest! With weight, you can feel your pants getting tighter, or notice you look fuller in the face, etc. With BP, there aren't really any signs or symptoms that it's high until it's super high. I think I'm going to try to take it every day for the forseeable future. Now, if at some point my BP goes down markedly and doesn't seem to go back up for a long time, then maybe I'll take it less often - once a week or two.

[2bthinner!]

How is your magnesium intake? I just got the PPLP book and there is a chapter in there about magnesium and blood pressure. Depending on the type you take, chelated or not, there's different dosage. If it's not chelated, ie oxidate then you take a bit more to get enough. If you take too much, one side effect is diarrhea.

[lczeledoc]

Levi,

I am pretty confident that my lower BP is for real. There are have been 6 readings over 4 months in the same range, 120/80-75. Yes, my fish oil dosage is a bit higher than what is normally recommeded. I based it on recommendations from various strength training coaches (Charles Poliquin, John Berardi, although I go a bit higher in dose). I figured that there is no adverse effect from the higher dose that I know of. I also, eat a lot of Omega-3 rich fish.

[Gaelen]

I am pretty confident that my lower BP is for real. There are have been 6 readings over 4 months in the same range, 120/80-75

lczeledoc--just for info purposes, the monitoring dvdmon suggests is actually better at trend-spotting (3x per day on automated equipment for at least 30 days to develop a 'picture' of what your true average BP reading is.) Even twice a day for that period (once in a.m. before any activity, once later in the day after moving around) would give you a closer picture of your true blood pressure. 6 readings over 4 months is less than one good reading every 20 days--and you don't mention whether you had any other readings that didn't make the good list. If you did have additional readings and they were high, your BP is still an area you need to watch. If you didn't have any additional readings, you just don't really have enough information to do more than hope the ones you've got are accurate.

I no longer take my BP daily, more like a couple times a week, but after nearly two and half years of monitoring daily because of the chemo meds and my matralineal history, I can *feel* the elevation if it spikes. ;) But even when my readings were at their highest, I could force a passable reading by taking my BP in bed, first thing in the a.m. before I got up and started moving around. Get up, move around, even something as simple as walking the dogs, and I'd be at 145/90 or higher. I have dozens of doctor visits on record where my 6 a.m. BP was fine, and my BP in the chair prior to chemo was high. Just to check, my BP would elevate on days when I *wasn't* getting a treatment, and was just working at my desk--the noon BP would be high, although the early morning check had been 110/70.

Gaelen, happily averaging 110/70 all day long once again

[lczeledoc]

Gaelen,

I agree that my BP readings are not conclusive, and that the kind of BP monitoring Levi proposes is the proper way. The 6 BP readings that I mentioned, were the only ones that were taken as part of medical chek-ups and blood donation. All I am saying is that for over 10 years, without closely monitoring my BP, every time I went for a medical check-up, a blood donation (A few times a year), my BP readings were always al least 140/90, and some times as high as 155/95. I attributed that to my increased beody mass. Last year, I started to take fish oil for its CHD protective qualities and was pleasantly surprised that my BP had decreased.

[dvdmon]

Hey guys, sorry it's been so long, I had promised to update you. Just been pretty busy with the new job and trips and a sick daughter. Anyway, I continue to do the natural interventions that people suggested and which I also found online on most days, save for aerobic exercise. I did that the first week, but have not been able to keep it up due to time constraints. I really need to construct one of those treadmills at my desk at work so that I can get activity while I work!

Anyway, I haven't taken my bp since last week, so I really need to do that, but at least for the first week , I managed to get my bp back down to less scary numbers. Basically that week I was averaging 120/80 in the morning when I got up as well as right before going to sleep. After getting home from work, though, it was more elevated - 130's over 90's.

So for now anyway, things seem to be ok, I just wonder if there's a way to get it down during work. Maybe try to do some kind of relaxation or breathing exercises a few times during the day or something. We'll see...

[LisaS]

I came across this link a few months ago -
http://www.resperate.com/
looks like it has some interesting trials behind it

[labuchanan]

To read about the benefits of high dosage Fish Oil EFAs, check out Dr. Barry Sears book the The OmegaRX Zone and his website, www.drsears.com (http://www.drsears.com). I am inclined to believe Iczeledoc's blood pressure drop is due to the Fish Oil.

[dvdmon]

LisaS, thanks so much for the link to Resperate. I read up on the device a lot - read reviews on Amazon and even on Resperate's own forum, read articles, etc. It seems like it's a decent bet. Some people experience great improvement, others modest, and still others none. Most say that at the least it helps with relaxation. Part of the variability of success, I'm sure, has to do with the underlying cause for a given person's hypertension. For some it may be diet-related, for others it may be electrolyte-related, and for still others it could be stress-related. But for many or even most, it may be a combination of these. Resperate is basically a biofeedback device that helps one slow down breathing, in a similar way to meditation. So although it doesn't work for some (probably those who have mainly diet-related hypertension), it appears to work well for others.

It's pretty pricey at $300, but I bit. I figured my health is important enough to take the bet. It has a 30-day money-back guarantee, and even going past that, it seems the device has been going for $215-260 on eBay, so if nothing else it might be a 3-month trial for $40-80. We'll see. I like the fact that you don't have to spend loads of time with it. 45 minutes per week, or three sessions is supposed to be enough, although many go for 1 x 15-minute session every day. Others do 2, and a few even 3 per day. I think I'd start out with one per week day right after coming home from work, which seems to be when my BP is a bit high. I'll report back after I've been doing it for a week or two to let you know what I think.

[LisaS]

I'd be interested to hear - what I found intriguing is the almost subliminal aspect of it so that you don't stress over de-stressing (counting or mentally reciting, etc) - I look forward to hearing from you on the results of your n=1 experiment.

[soopy]

DH has recently found himself in pretty much the same position of somewhat elevated BP, and is anxious to bring it back to more reasonable numbers. I'm eagerly waiting for an update on how the Resperate device is working. In the meantime ......... celery (either 4 stalks or 4 oz daily or thereabouts) is supposed to bring it down several points pretty quickly. DH just made a nice 'celery shake' and downed it for an afternoon snack. Hope it works.

[soopy]

OK, very preliminary results, I know, but after weeks of about 147/95ish, DH has had readings of 125/72 for the last 3 days. He hasn't seen such a dramatic drop since he gave blood!

[dvdmon]

Well, sorry about not reporting in for a while! I have been using resperate and enjoy it, but I've been a bit lazy/forgetful so only have managed maybe 2x per week on average. I don't know if it's helped that much as I haven't been tracking BP, but I just took it now without really resting before I did it - just got up, got the bp monitor, sat down and started it right away. Normally this would have produced a somewhat elevated reading, but mine averaged 124/82. Not bad! So resperate may indeed be helping, but at the same time I've been avoiding sodium, for the last few weeks I've been walking almost an hour a day during the week, and I've been trying to get at least some water, although probably not enough most days. But it is enjoyable to use, I just have to try to set aside time for it. Most of the time it ends up being right before bed, which is not optimal because I'm pretty tired and have trouble staying awake while doing it! Anyone else here using it and what are your experiences so far?

[maxlharris]

Have read a few times about doing some grip exercises helping with BP. DW is doing it, but has stopped monitoring for a bit. 4 times a day, 30 seconds a go with a stress ball. DW enjoys it. Brings her stress ball everywhere.

[dvdmon]

I got a hand grip and have been trying to use it every day on my commute home. I grip it for an estimated two minutes, switch hands another two, etc. It takes me about 15 minutes to get home and I do this most of the way. I've been a little less dedicated in the last couple weeks, though.

Oh, forgot to post a follow-up last night. I did resperate last night and for the first time I actually measured my BP right after it. It was pretty impressive! Probably the lowest I can remember seeing my BP, even right after waking and without even getting out of bed. My BP was 112/72! If that isn't motivation to keep doing it, I don't know what is! :)

[maxlharris]

Hrm, looked at site for resperate. Probably be very good for DW. Will she use it? Probably not? Am thinking that same effect could be done with something like Enya music, but I'm cynical like that sometimes.

Might look into that though.

[dvdmon]

Hrm, looked at site for resperate. Probably be very good for DW. Will she use it? Probably not? Am thinking that same effect could be done with something like Enya music, but I'm cynical like that sometimes.

Might look into that though.


Enya Music? It's a biofeedback device that automatically gets your breathing rate down via slowing these musical cues. Enya is just music. It might be relaxing to some people, but I don't think it's helpful in this sense. This is essentially a technical way to achieve the same thing that meditation helps you do, but it does it with these cues that make it much less of an effort. So you could do something similar without it, but you would have to work at it a lot harder and it would take a while to get good enough where you could reliably get your breathing rate down. The other nice thing about this is that it tracks your progress. You get to see how many minutes you've done in the "therapeutic zone" during your last session, over the last week, and last 2 months. You also get metrics for your beginning and ending breathing rate, how many sessions you've done in the last week or 60 days, etc. Of course you can track this yourself on paper, but it's nice to not have to. It is a pricey device, but they do have a 30-day money-back guarentee. I didn't know if I'd use it, so that guarentee is useful. You just have to stay on top of it. After 3 weeks if it seems like you're not going to use it or if it's not helpful, etc., you can always return it...

[maxlharris]

Didn't mean to be offensive. But the science seems like it's a fancy/more scientific way of getting people to focus on something and let go of everything else. DW needs this, but it's always a question of whether DW will use it or get mad and stressed at the sight. Never mind the price.

Now, if it's about therapeutic breathing, I have my thoughts on that. Gimme some Bob Marley, a nice wine, a comfy chair and I can get real slow. Course, hypertension isn't my problem. It's wifes. If she could do what I could do with Bob, a merlot and a chair, she wouldn't need a biofeedback device or a stress ball. but, mileage varies. I would be interested to hear more about your results with it though. would also be interested in pre-post session bp readings. DW could do a session in the waiting room before getting the doc to take her BP. Shrug.

[dvdmon]

No offense taken. You certainly can do the same thing without the device, it's just a matter of how dedicated you are, your temperment, etc. I don't have the motivation/energy/whatever to do this stuff on my own at the moment, and plus I love gadgets ;) so this is a good fit for me. It may or may not be for your wife, but as I said, there's always the money-back guarentee.

I'll see if I can do some more readings with pre and post bp...

[maxlharris]

Cool. Hey, BTW, how goes the buying club thing. I am interested and live in your neighborhood, roughly. Would be interested in resources for finding a club, particularly around meat products.

[dvdmon]

I just posted an update to my buying club stuff here:

http://www.proteinpower.com/forum/showthread.php?p=40796#post40796

And I'll send you a PM so we can talk about buying club info around here.

Levi

[dvdmon]

Just to follow up, I tried measuring BP before and after resperate tonight and here are the results:

Before resperate: 122/81

After resperate: 117/76

So a 5-point drop in about 15 minutes. Nothing amazing, but then again, the base is pretty low to start. Plus I was falling asleep as I was doing it, so maybe that degraded the effectiveness a bit! :)

[Gaelen]

... But the science seems like it's a fancy/more scientific way of getting people to focus on something and let go of everything else.

Max, yes, that's the reader's digest condensed version of biofeedback. But does it work? Well...yes...actually. Biofeedback is an automated version of the kind of teaching session you'd get in any venue when working with a really good trainer--but it takes the guesswork out of correctly timed reinforcement. By offering that 'fancy, more scientific way' to get people to focus, you (the trainee) gets the input that you're doing it right at exactly the correct instant. I've been training people (and animals) for over 30 years, and while I'm really good (if I do say so myself), I'm no biofeedback machine. There are days, believe me, when I would trade my soul to be able to offer feedback on that level--usually when I'm hitting the wall with a trainee who just doesn't 'get it' (whatever 'it' is!)

I still am capable of making a mistake, being a half-second off in my timing, not correctly gauging a trainee's motivation or tolerance, not reinforcing exactly what I want or giving precisely the right feedback at the right moment to the right trainee. Biofeedback eliminates a lot of that, and because it does, it can sometimes accomplish what a human trainer can't and do it much more quickly. Good biofeedback sessions *still* make me jealous and drive me to improve my own training skills. ;)

DW needs this, but it's always a question of whether DW will use it or get mad and stressed at the sight. Never mind the price.

If the trainee doesn't have the temperament to accept the biofeedback, then it will not be as successful. That said, I have seen it used really effectively with people who initially were reluctant...but something about the magic of the instant feedback won them over, and that improved their compliance, and then they were off to the races. It is always worth a shot with people who have continuing issues and who are non-compliant with or resistant to other methods or approaches.

Now, if it's about therapeutic breathing, I have my thoughts on that. Gimme some Bob Marley, a nice wine, a comfy chair and I can get real slow. Course, hypertension isn't my problem. It's wifes. If she could do what I could do with Bob, a merlot and a chair, she wouldn't need a biofeedback device or a stress ball. but, mileage varies.

See, Max, there's the key. Some people just can't accomplish that 'slow down' without help. In my very early 20s, I participated in a migraine study where we learned to meditate away our migraines. Yes, honest. I'd done a little yoga, a little TM before that, but didn't meditate regularly. Through most of my adult life, when I meditated regularly I was able to control my migraines although I never eliminated them. And when I wasn't meditating regularly, I had migraines more often, but I was able to 'meditate them away' if I could catch them early enough, maybe 9 incidents out of 10.

Part of the study was spent teaching us how to meditate. And the practice intrigued me enough that I continued to try to do it, try to attain the meditative state more easily and more quickly, try different types of practices. I now vastly prefer walking meditation, and do it nearly every day, but I try to do at least one stationary mind-clearing meditation a week just to keep that practice in good form (it's a much harder way to meditate, IMO).

Anyway--my point is that for many people, meditation isn't their first thought. It's a tough practice and it doesn't come naturally. I never had the early experience with mediation or relaxation techniques of using a biofeedback device to get me to my goal more quickly--but I did have the temperament and interest to pursue it. Without that interest, and the fact that for me, it worked to reduce/control my migraines without drugs, I'd have probably dropped the idea long ago. But with the right reinforcement (drug-free migraine control...if you have migraines, you know how powerful an incentive that can be!), I was encouraged to maintain the effort and keep practicing the techniques. Biofeedback can do the same thing, and if the trainee responds, it won't take 30 years to learn what to do, how to do it and when. ;)

[Songwriter]

I think Doc Mike said salt / blood pressure correleation is weak?

There is a product made by Melaleuca called Prostolic that supposedly is good for blood pressure and it's a natural product. It's a good company, I think they make good products. I am considering buying it for three months or so and see how it does. They have a fiber product that has 12 gm fiber! And tastes good! :)

[dvdmon]

I now vastly prefer walking meditation, and do it nearly every day, but I try to do at least one stationary mind-clearing meditation a week just to keep that practice in good form (it's a much harder way to meditate, IMO).

Gaelen, I've never heard of "walking meditation"! Might you by accident get so relaxed that you would run into a tree ;)? Seriously, I go for walks now just about every day on the bike path which has lots of great foliage, birds, etc. The only thing is that it's my one big chunk of time during the day that I can listen to audio books!

I have wanted to try to meditate in the past, but just hadn't had the patience or motivation. The nice thing about Respirate is that you need neither. You just site down put your headphones on, strap the breathing belt on, and follow the tones. The default time is only 15 minutes, which is good, but I'm starting to wonder if upping it slightly might actually provide even more benefit?

[Gaelen]

DVDmon, longer meditation is always more beneficial.
Moving or walking meditation is about being in the moment, noticing the world around you and being fully present, versus stationary meditation with can sometimes be thought of as shutting the world out and moving deeper within yourself.

In moving meditation, you strive to embrace the moment, the here and now.
You won't walk into a tree...but you will notice and embrace that there are new buds on the tree, or that there are animal tracks ahead of yours on a snowy path, or that the lilacs are just coming into bloom as you accept them into your world. Moving meditation is an acceptance of life into your soul, as it happens, and reflection on your place in that life.

Damn, that's heavy. It's a lot less pretentious than that!
One good and accessible interpretation is "Peace is Every Step." Just don't get the audiobook...the author's thoughts are beautiful, but I found his speech patterns distracting rather than centering.

[soopy]

Gaelen,
Thanks for the 'walking meditation' thought. I'm out hiking every day, and it's all too easy to get caught up in my thoughts and have no idea of what's around me. If it wasn't for the dog, I could probably go right past a bear or deer without ever seeing it. I'm going to be more conscientious about really attending to my surroundings.

DVD,
Thanks for your review of the Resperate. I've just got one for DH. We've also just recently installed a sauna, so it's going to be a new routine. He can use the Resperate while waiting for the sauna to heat up, or while cooling down. He absolutely loves his sauna time, so shouldn't be a problem getting in bio feedback time along with it.

[dvdmon]

Just thought I'd share my latest numbers, since they are an all-time low. Of course, I'm taking these at 1:30AM, after I've somehow stayed up way too late yet again! And I was nodding off a bit while doing Resperate. Still, my pre-Resperate reading was pretty low, despite the fact I was walking around a bit before taking it - 115/76. My post-Resperate reading was 106/72! I do think, though, that I need to try to make time for it right after coming home, as I think my resting BP at that point will be a good deal higher than right before bed, so better to get it kicked down from a slightly elevated level asap rather than going from an already low number to an even lower number right before bed...

[dvdmon]

Just saw that another study has shown chocolate can be helpful with BP:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/03/AR2007070301513.html

The drops in BP really were not very much compared to this earlier study:

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=3032114

My plan is to use either the chocolate with the highest % of cacao (so far an 82% dark chocolate I've found at Trader Joes), or just plain baking chocolate without any sugar at all. That may sound a little weird, but I once used to drink coffee only with lots of cream and sweetener and now can drink it black. I just started drinking it black and it was pretty yucky for the first week or so, but eventually I got past some of the initial bitterness and started appreciating the taste of the coffee. I think the sugar/splenda/equal and cream was hiding most of that taste. I assume there's something similar with chocolate - once you remove the sugar, you can taste the various flavors of the chocolate much more easily...

According to fitday, unsweetened chocolate is about 3.5g ECC per oz. whereas regular chocolate is about 15g per oz - at least according to fitday...

[soopy]

There's quite a difference between the two studies in amount of chocolate consumed, which might be the difference in results. A 3.5 oz bar is way more than 30 calories, however dark the chocolate!

There are a number of companies that have 85 - 86 % cocoa bars, but if you really want a taste challenge, go for the Lindt 99%!