Newbie with Questions

[msgq]

Hello - My name is Kathy and I am new to the PP way of life. It is a long story as to how I found PP, but I am here and I have questions.

I started officially on Feb 1. I would like to say I have lost a ton of weight and such, but I haven’t, which is discouraging, but understandable. (It hasn’t even been a full two weeks!) I can say that I feel better, but I’m a bit weak. I seem a little slower on my walks and my legs ache, but I assume that is part of the program switching to fat burning versus sugar burning.

Anyway, my question is about cheese. I have heard that cheese can slow down weight loss. Should cheese be limited? What about cottage cheese?

Second, is about weight loss, and I know the main objective of PP is not to lose weight, but that is what I need to do. (I’ve had 3 babies in 39 months, I need to drop weight! 100 lbs total, 70 to get back to marriage weight, 50 to get back to pre baby weight.) I read in the 1995 edition of PP that it may take awhile for your body to change gears to burning fat and not sugar – makes sense. How long? And, I’ve read that some people have experienced that the 30g of Carbs are to low and start losing on the 55g of Carb plan. When do you switch? Do I stick with the 30g of carb for the 4 to 6 weeks with no movement in weight loss????

And finally, what about Protein drinks? Has anyone ever used them as a supplement or meal replacement, and if so, can you make recommendations?

It is hard to follow a low carb plan for eating, but both my husband and I feel like this is the only thing that makes sense. We’ve read the PP book and Jonny Bowden’s Living the Low Carb Life and it just makes sense. But, support seems hard to find. Where do I get questions answered?

Thanks ahead for your input. I’m just beginning….

Kathy

[lah]

Hi Kathy and welcome! I am sure that some of our "big guns" will answer your post pdq, but until then...

You probably need to supplement with potassium if your legs ache. 99 mg/day will do it. Cheese is okay, if you don't go overboard. It has lots of sodium and can cause you to retain water if you eat tons of it. Also, it is calorie dense so while eating 1/2 pound may not fill you up, you will not lose weight because you are taking in more energy than you are burning. The same thing applies to nuts-calorie dense, easy to over-do.

It can take anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks to start feeling perkier, but I would say that if you start with the potassium you will feel better quickly.

Protein shakes are great! Try to find a powder that is low carb, avoid anything sweetened with fructose, aspartame, or sugar. I like GNC brand Whey Protein Powder, comes in several flavors. There are so many choices. There is a thread about protein powders, perhaps one of the gang can post the link for Kathy?

You and your husband will do fine and feel great once you get in the swing of things. It really isn't hard. This board is a great support.

Lee

[Ammy]

Well, I can only tell you from my perspective and what I've read...so here goes.

I got nothing for you on the protein shakes, sorry, MANY people use them. I you watch the challenge thread "what did you eat today", you'll see all the people that drink them and say they are UUMMMMMYYYY and very filling!!

Cheese...my favorite food. In fact, on the flowers/card I just sent my GF, I wrote, "I love you more than cheese"!! :D
I think the cheese thing probably has something to do with the fat. PP says :eat nuts", but if you aren't losing weight it could be because you are eating too many nuts. I think the same thing goes for cheese. GREAT additive, but shouldn't be a soul source of protein.
Cottage Cheese - when you cut out the fat, you may be adding carbs, so when you eat your cottage cheese-choose the FULL FAT kind. PP offers it as a good source of protein, just get the right kind.

I stuck with the lower carbs count for quite a while - can't really say how long, but long enough that I was in the HABIT of eating low carb.

I agree with lah on the potassium...also YOU HAVE TO DRINK YOUR WATER!! YOU HAVE TO DRINK YOUR WATER...and whatever else you do, YOU HAVE TO DRINK YOUR WATER!!
Did I mention to you about drinking water??
It's VERY common to feel a bit tired and drained as your body gets use to this way of eating...don't stop, keep going-soon you'll get "zippy". TRUST, it will happen!

My final suggestion...and this is totally MY opinion so take what you want and leave the rest...
Don't try and "replace" all the carbs you have been eating with LC (low carb) replacements, find foods that are NATURALLY low in carbs to fill your plate. Eat your meat with veggies and add a 1/2 a fruit as your "dessert". That way you're actually CHANGING your way of eating. It's a LOT easier to go to a restaurant or someones house for dinner when you know how to eat "meat with veggies". If you are always replacing your foods with a LC version of something-then you can really blow it when you take a trip or have a meal out. JUST MY OPINION!

Good luck! and if you haven't already, join us in the challenge threads!

[Shadow]

Welcome, Kathy :). You have already received some great advice from Lah and Amy - all of which I agree with :nod:.

As for the carb level - you really don't ever have to go higher than 30 if you don't want since carbs aren't necessary ;). The higher carb levels are just to ensure more variety in our menus - not because they're needed. I have been following PP for almost 5 years and even when I reached maintenance, I didn't really increase my carbs. I am quite satisfied at around 45 ECC per day.

When I started, I cut out all sugar, HFCS, transfats, flour etc the first 2 weeks. The second 2 I started whittling down even more. At the end of my 4th week, I was at 25 ECC per day and felt just fine. What little bit of tiredness I had was easily fixed with the potassium and magnesium recommended. It was just easier for me that way than a drastic jump :). Plus that way, I never had to stop or cut back on my exercise.

HTH!

[msgq]

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

LAH - I kinda thought that would be the answer about cheese, but I just wasn't confident enough to believe it. I think I've tracked it and I usually do about 4-5 ounces through out the day. One ounce in the AM omelette, one ounce on each salad for lunch and dinner, and occasionally as a snack. I'm learning to like Cottage Cheese - my husband is thrilled with the full fat variety. (He's thrilled with the changes!)

Ammy - Thanks for the reminder about water. And, I like the idea of learning to eat without the LC variety of things. I'm kinda a purist when it comes to this. The only thing I really like LC are the Mission Tortillas. And, the water... I need to do that.

Shadow-- Okay, I just had to giggle with your response to the amount of carbs. I've been talking to my husband about it - he is not over weight, but believes in the LC lifestyle -- and he said the same thing on Sunday - almost word for word. Funny how we need outside reinforcement.

I've enjoyed reading the boards. They are very encouraging.

Thanks for your input.

[Shadow]

Shadow-- Okay, I just had to giggle with your response to the amount of carbs. I've been talking to my husband about it - he is not over weight, but believes in the LC lifestyle -- and he said the same thing on Sunday - almost word for word. Funny how we need outside reinforcement.
Hopefully it's a case of great minds thinking alike :D :lol: ;)! But giggles are wonderful things - so I'm glad I could assist with that!

[maxlharris]

Hello - My name is Kathy and I am new to the PP way of life. It is a long story as to how I found PP, but I am here and I have questions.

I dunno if I qualify as a heavy hitter, but welcome. And sit tight. This might be long.


I started officially on Feb 1. I would like to say I have lost a ton of weight and such, but I haven’t, which is discouraging, but understandable. (It hasn’t even been a full two weeks!) I can say that I feel better, but I’m a bit weak. I seem a little slower on my walks and my legs ache, but I assume that is part of the program switching to fat burning versus sugar burning.

Good choice. The weight will come in time.
Bit weak is to be expected early. As you have surmised, fat vs sugar for fuel. Fat is not as "clean burning" as sugar, so it can take a while before you feel fully yourself on it. When you get there, you will feel pretty damn good though.

In the interim:
Potassium suppliment. This might be something like the Light Salt, which is something like 50% regular sodium salt and 50% potassium chloride. If you are not a super taster, you will probably not notice the difference. This will help with any leg weakness, cramps or pain you might be having.

Multivitamin with a good large dose of B-Complex vitamins, especially B-12. This should help with any tiredness or lack of energy.

Magnesium is supposed to help as well.

If you have any cravings for carb food, L-Glutamine is supposed to be helpful as well.

Oh yeah, how long the conversion takes: It can take a couple days. It can day a couple weeks. It can take a little longer. I think it took me four days the first time I did it. Maybe five. I have heard 3 weeks, and maybe a little longer.


Anyway, my question is about cheese. I have heard that cheese can slow down weight loss. Should cheese be limited? What about cottage cheese?

Someone already mentioned the sodium and the caloric density. I want to mention carbs. There is a rule of thumb I have seen about counting 1 gram per ounce of cheese. This is, well, flawed. Parmesan has nearly no sugar (but a lot of sodium). Cheddar is about 1g/oz. Camembert is maybe 6g/oz if I recall correctly. Older, harder cheddar will have fewer carbs (and more flavor) than young, bright orange store brand cheddar (a minor sin).

I believe you said, in another posting, you were doing 5-6 oz of cheese per day. This is a lot. Are you weighing it? If you aren't, you might actually be doing more like 10-12 oz (this estimate is based on a ton of research). And that's a lot of "hidden" carbs that you might not be counting, a lot of calories, a lot of sodium, and I have heard that cheese congests or something, which might also slow you.

That said, I eat cheese. I love cheese. A lot. I would recommend you to fitday.com or another food tracking site. And weigh and measure things for a while, until you are sure with portions and what not.


Second, is about weight loss, and I know the main objective of PP is not to lose weight, but that is what I need to do. (I’ve had 3 babies in 39 months, I need to drop weight! 100 lbs total, 70 to get back to marriage weight, 50 to get back to pre baby weight.) I read in the 1995 edition of PP that it may take awhile for your body to change gears to burning fat and not sugar – makes sense. How long? And, I’ve read that some people have experienced that the 30g of Carbs are to low and start losing on the 55g of Carb plan. When do you switch? Do I stick with the 30g of carb for the 4 to 6 weeks with no movement in weight loss????

Who told you that this isn't about Weight Loss? Sure, it's about total health, but if you are 100 lbs over weight, that's maybe a health thing? Yah.

Switching: It takes as long as it takes. You'll get there. Especially if you watch your carbs closely, and make sure they are under 40 and evenly spaced through the day (or slightly more in the AM and less in the PM... have read that body is better able to process them in the AM).

How Many Carbs?: If I recall correctly, in 1995, they set two levels for induction: 30g/day and 55g/day. The 30g was for folks who are looking to lose weight, or a lot of weight. 100 lbs would count as a lot. 55g was for folks who were looking to enjoy the health benefits and were already around their goal weight.


And finally, what about Protein drinks? Has anyone ever used them as a supplement or meal replacement, and if so, can you make recommendations?

I like Worldwide Pure Protein shakes at 11 oz that I get from Trader Joes. I like the Vanilla. They are premade, in a can. 35g protein and 2g carbs. They make one that is something like 21g pro 2g carbs. The chocolate was not to my liking, and I think it comes in 35 and 21 g protein and 3g net carbs. Through the internet, I got cookies and cream (which was like a watered down chocolate) and have seen banana and strawberry.

I like them because:
1- It's very easy (I eat 5 meals a day, and this is a VERY easy way to get one of them)
2- It's a nice easy protein (I need 125+g / day, or 30/ main meal, so, again, easy)
3- It's good for a pre-workout deal. Whey protein is supposedly "fast" protein, so it helps build muscle when you have it around workouts.


It is hard to follow a low carb plan for eating, but both my husband and I feel like this is the only thing that makes sense. We’ve read the PP book and Jonny Bowden’s Living the Low Carb Life and it just makes sense. But, support seems hard to find. Where do I get questions answered?

This is one of the best places to find support. It is one of the best places to find answers. I think the interaction here is very helpful and it it useful to talk to others. In time, you will find, with the proper commitment, it will be very easy to eat this way.

Good luck and welcome to the group.

[msgq]

MaxLHarris -- Thanks for your reply. (I've read your other posts and gleaned quite a bit of info....)

I am quite proud to say that for once I can say that I am weighing the cheese. (Ususally I can't say that, but this time I can!) I've cut back to 3 ounces, mainly on salads -- all measured.

I just pulled fitday.com up and it looks great. I'm going to check this out.

I'm working on getting the supplement thing taken care of. I'm trying to be intentional with what I'm doing this time, so I'm researching first. I've started the potassium -- yes, it helps with leg cramps. I picked up magnesium, but I'm not quite sure what it is supposed to do yet.

Hmmm. Thanks so much for the input.

I'm starting a weight lifting class at the YMCA next week, and trying to do the 10000 steps. You are right it is about being healthy -- Additionally, it is about setting a good example for my sons. I have a long road to go.

(Maybe the next step will be figuring out how to do the neat quote boxes and a signature!!)

Thanks.

Kathy

[maxlharris]

Hmmm. Thanks so much for the input.

I'm starting a weight lifting class at the YMCA next week, and trying to do the 10000 steps. You are right it is about being healthy -- Additionally, it is about setting a good example for my sons. I have a long road to go.

(Maybe the next step will be figuring out how to do the neat quote boxes and a signature!!)


You're welcome.

With exercise: Good deal, but make sure you are over the hump on fat burning first. You can tire out REALLY fast doing exercise if you are still converting.

On Steps: I highly recommend taking a baseline-plus approach. Wear a step counter for a week, figure out what you do normally (very hard to do, because the counter is a strong motivator). Then try to add 500 to that average a week, until you get to 10K. I don't have time to explain why this is better right now, but the short version is that you are creating a habit gradually.

On quotes: You can use the tag "quote" and "/quote", only with [ and ] around them. Anything you put between them
will look like this. You can also use this button: http://proteinpower.com/forum/images/editor/quote.gif on the editor

Signatures can be made and altered in the User CP section. The link to it is near the upper right of the page, the right side of the blue bar below the line that traces back which part of the forum you are in.

[Missy]

Max? I have another question:

You wrote:"
Oh yeah, how long the conversion takes: It can take a couple days. It can day a couple weeks. It can take a little longer. I think it took me four days the first time I did it. Maybe five. I have heard 3 weeks, and maybe a little longer.

Can you explain a little further? How did you KNOW and how do you KNOW that your body is and stays IN that mode?

The ONLY time I lose weight, I notice is when I taste that keto breath business..then it goes away, yet, I've not changed anything about what I'm doing?

Welcome aboard Msgq! Lots of helpful, smart, supportive people here! LOTS! Glad you've joined us! :D Remember, don't be affraid to ask questions if your unsure of something..that's very helpful, not only to you, but others as well!

[maxlharris]

Can you explain a little further? How did you KNOW and how do you KNOW that your body is and stays IN that mode?

The ONLY time I lose weight, I notice is when I taste that keto breath business..then it goes away, yet, I've not changed anything about what I'm doing?

So, as I've been told, the focus of the diet is not supposed to be on the ketosis process or ketone emissions. I wouldn't change that, even though, to my understanding, that's the underlying mechanism.

The breath, the smell of the urine, the sweat. Yeah, all keys.

But the energy level is mostly how I keep track. If my muscles get tired from just walking around, I know I'm not "In". If I feel flu-like, then I'm "out". If I feel good and full of energy, "IN".

I don't want to talk about strips or anything like that, since they are flawed, and some folks hereabouts think they distract. I don't want that discussion again.

[Missy]

Thanks Max...I just was curious as to what you specifically noticed about you..because I know what I notice about ME whenever the "time to lose pounds" God shines down on me...RARELY...:rolleyes: ...but I was wondering what 'others" notice about their experience physically. Thanks for sharing!

I do notice when I get that BREATH I can "expect" something good to show up on the scale. That doesn't mean other things aren't happening throughout the month...but, well, this made me curious. :D

[gitfiddle]

I picked up magnesium, but I'm not quite sure what it is supposed to do yet.
Magnesium helps your body absorb calcium and we get a lot more calcium in our diet than magnesium, so the supplements. It's also good for your nervous system. My doctor recommends chelated magnesium, which I take in the form of magnesium citrate. He told me to work up to a dose that causes loose stools and then back off a little. Some people notice that magnesium oxide is a little harsher on the system. My husband takes medicine that tends to constipate and the magnesium keeps everything working properly.

Sounds like you're doing great, Kathy!

[msgq]

AUHHHHH! MORE QUESTIONS!


On Steps: I highly recommend taking a baseline-plus approach. Wear a step counter for a week, figure out what you do normally (very hard to do, because the counter is a strong motivator). Then try to add 500 to that average a week, until you get to 10K. I don't have time to explain why this is better right now, but the short version is that you are creating a habit gradually.

Max - GREAT idea. I'm going to do that. But, here is my BIG question....


Oh yeah, how long the conversion takes: It can take a couple days. It can day a couple weeks. It can take a little longer. I think it took me four days the first time I did it. Maybe five. I have heard 3 weeks, and maybe a little longer.

I'm lost on this. I don't know if my body is doing this. My husband and I were just talking over lunch if anything what happening, and I don't think so.

On the calendar I've been doing this for almost a month. I haven't lost any weight. I'm tracking my food - around 20 - 25 carbs a day, between 1200-1600 calories. I haven't had a huge weight loss like they talk about.

My leg cramps have gone away with the potassium. My new "symptoms" are that I am hot, burning up, feverish like all the time. (I'm not sick, nor menapausal.) I wake up in the middle of the night hot. Is that the conversion? My energy seems to be good. I do occassionally have the flu like symtoms. What is that all about??

I'm, or we - my husband and I, are trying to figure out what to do next. Do I continue with the carb intake that I'm at. Do I increase? Someone suggested increasing Carbs to 40 to start losing weight? Am I doing something TOTALLY wrong????

If I just need to give it more time, I'm okay with that. I'm just fearful that I am messing things up. I really want to get this weight off. I really feel like I picked the right plan. I've done the research, but my body isn't doing what the books say it should be doing. (I just grabbed a copy of Eades 30 day program ... I haven't lost any weight.)

Input anyone??
HELP!!!!!!

[Always]

Welcome msgq!
First I would tell you to relax...everyone's body is different. It's a big change for your body to deal with. You're not "messing up". IF you are following the plan and choose to stay under 30 carbs/day, then maybe up your carbs a little to get to 30. Have you calculated how much protein you need and are you getting the minimum and more? Have you measured yourself? You could be losing inches at this stage.

I've been following PP since Nov of 2000 and for me it has been a very slow loss, so give this way of eating a chance to work. It's great that you're logging everything you eat...that's the only thing that works and works well for me and many others.

No offense to Max's comments on a "conversion", but I wouldn't stress yourself on this issue. Your body will adjust and when it does, you'll know because you've lost weight or inches.

It does sound like you're having hot flashes though ;) as I can attest to from personal experience. I had a hysterectomy 6 months before starting PP and when I was on hormones (none for 3 years now) I do remember that when I stretched in the morning I would get very hot, but I just thought that had something to do with hot flashes. Hopefully someone else will have a suggestion on that issue.

But the bottom line is stay under your carb maximum; get in at least your protein minimum; and don't worry about fat. I would even say to not worry about calories at this early stage (but that doesn't mean you should eat a pound of bacon). I'm a big fan of protein shakes (http://www.lowcarbcentral.biz/Recipes/ProteinShakes.pdf) and have one every mornin'.

My wonderful husband also doesn't need to lose weight, but he has joined me in following PP. He carbs are usually 100 grms/day. When he goes over, he feels it.

Join in on the challenges that are offered here...you'll get all the support you could ever ask for and then some.

[maxlharris]

msgq:

It might be helpful for us if you posted a couple days worth of menus. If you aren't tracking with something like fitday, you might look into it.

[msgq]

Mary - Thanks for your encouragement. I'm planning on staying with it. My husband has joined me also and he doesn't need to lose weight either. He feels it when he goes over his carbs. It helps to know I'm not crazy.

Max -- Funny. My husband just suggested I post some menus. I'm using fitday, so I'll see if I can cut and paste or if I have to re-type. At anyrate, it can't happen now because I have to put three little boys down for a nap!

I'll get those up soon!

THANK YOU.

[maxlharris]

If you are logging on fitday, you can make your journal public on the control panel, and post a link. Then we can look over anything you've logged.

Also, be sure you are entering proper quantities. It can be helpful to measure for a few weeks. Studies show that even professional dietitians can be very bad at estimating portions (by something like a factor of 2).

[msgq]

Measuring is a good idea. Probably the best option at this point would be for me to log for this next week and then post. I say this mainly because we are leaving on vacation tomorrow and I'm not having a lot of computer time with packing etc.

I'll try to measure and post something by this weekend.

I had my first protein shake today. YUMMMY.

[msgq]

Okay. Wow. That was a lot easier than I thought. I only have five or six days in fitday, but you can see what I have.

http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=msgq

I'll check back after vacation.

OH, my DH just said we are taking the computer so he can study for his CCNA. (Hmmm. Having doubts about vacation!)

I just checked the fitday site and my journals do not show the ECC of carbs. For example, the tortilla I use has 18 carbs and 11 grams of fiber, but it only shows 18 grams.

[LisaS]

that's pretty normal for nutrition software; you have to do the math yourself.

[maxlharris]

Cool.

I just looked at one day, I guess yesterday. (Late for the gym)

Some people have said that dairy will stall them. I don't know, but it seems possible. The day I looked at looks like a lot. I'm not saying that's the cause, but, it something that folks I've talked to might point to.

Also, 2 shakes is supposed to be two meals. I dunno if this is an entry error or what, but generally protein shakes are designed as meal replacements.

On the fiber thing: if you enter things right into fitday, on your daily summary sheet, you can subtract fiber from total carbs (it gives a line item for fiber) or you can back it out (take your cals from carbs and divide by 4... fitday doesn't count fiber as calories).

I will look more later.

[SherryJ]

Welcome, Kathy! http://forum.lowcarber.org/images/smilies/wavey.gif

As for the " 2 shakes is supposed to be two meals". In theory, yes... however, I use them to also boost protein, if needed. For example, I may have two shakes AND two meals, depending on the counts, and what I need that day...

Sherry

[maxlharris]

I think I might've spoken unclearly.

I do a shake and a bar, but that is 2 of 5 meals. It's all about how you break it up.

OTOH, some folks might want to look at artificial sweet or other non-sugar carbs in a shake (I dunno which you are using) or a bar and say that's the problem. I know a lot of people who noted problems with atkins meal replacement bars.

Overall, it's another case of variable mileage and needing to find your gear.

[msgq]

I was wondering about the dairy thing. It is a weakness I need to work on.
And, the shakes - I used two scoops in one shake in order to meet my protein requirements for the meal. It was my understanding that I needed at least 6 ounces of meat/meal. And, 1 oz of meat = 7g protein. So, I figured I needed 42g protein.

(I'm a little confused on the protein requirements. When I did the math, I needed 82g, when I got the 30 day book, it said I was on the XL portion, which = 6 oz meat/meal.) Maybe I have it all figured wrong.

[Mitra]

The 30 day book makes things simple by avoiding all the calculations, so the numbers won't be exactly the same as you get by working out your individual lean body mass, and taking into account your individual activity levels. If you've actually done the sums from PP, the that should be a more accurate number, so it's fine to stick with that one and just use the menu ideas and carb portion sizes from the 30 day book if they are helpful for you. Remember that the protein number is a minimum, so it's OK if you want to have more than that.