Sabotage - or other lack of support from friends/family

[Stephie]

Hi everyone -

In the past when I've been following this WOE/WOL, I've read about people who seem to try and sabotage the eating plan/weight loss/health focus of others. I've never personally experienced this, until now.

I think my best friend is trying to sabotage my eating plan. Maybe sabotage is too strong of a word, but she planned a party and then informed me that she expected me to "cheat" and eat tortilla chips there. She even stated that she knew I shouldn't, but that's what she was preparing for me. (The other items at the party would be pizza, cake and ice cream). (The party has since been cancelled, but I never had any plans of eating what she was serving. I planned to eat before going to the party and not eat anything there).

This makes her sound mean, and she's not at all. She's the nicest, kindest, most understanding person I know. When we eat out she says she is proud of me for eating so well and compliments my food choices.

She has successfully followed a low-carb plan before, so she knows exactly what I'm doing. I've been thinking about this all week, and I really think she's jealous of me. She does often say "Oh, you're eating so good, just like I should." She's diabetic, and she should eat better and take her health more seriously. She also says "When I get serious about things I'll eat like you. I'm just not serious yet."

As I've thought about this while writing it's more and more obvious to me that she is envious because I'm turning things around and doing what she really knows she should too.

Does anyone else have someone like this in their life? And how do you deal with it?

[Ottawa]

Stephie, a timely post during this Challenge. I have had several people try this occasionally having an effect when you are blind sided and there is no other food available.

Most of the times it calls for a re-evaluation of the friendship or at the least changing the closeness of the relationship.

The worst one was someone that I thought would understand my commitment to eating this way since we had discussed it at length. When I arrived at his house for lunch and to work on a joint project he announced that he had planned something special for me. His wife rolled her eyes and said "Johnathon if he is low carb he likely won't eat this".
It was Spaghetti and he replied "It's always best to apply moderation in everything."
Since he did it to "fix" me or alter how I make my choices, I just avoided any other projects that he was leading since I have seen him do the same thing (non food issues) in centering other people out.

Also a few times a year I hear "Surely you can give it up for one night." referring to a meal that they want you change your values on. It happened last week at our DIL's and she was referring to the mashed Potatoes and Apple Crisp. I replied I would bring an extra dessert to help out and she just left it.

The other type of person who tries to change you is the one who makes a statement like you mention, "Oh, you're eating so good, just like I should." It has to be jealousy over the control you have and they do not.

Just a little off kilter and, something you don't like to see in a friend.

[Anniesnan]

Hi everyone -
She has successfully followed a low-carb plan before, so she knows exactly what I'm doing. I've been thinking about this all week, and I really think she's jealous of me. She does often say "Oh, you're eating so good, just like I should." She's diabetic, and she should eat better and take her health more seriously. She also says "When I get serious about things I'll eat like you. I'm just not serious yet."

As I've thought about this while writing it's more and more obvious to me that she is envious because I'm turning things around and doing what she really knows she should too.

Does anyone else have someone like this in their life? And how do you deal with it?


Stephie,

I don't have anyone like that in my life right now, but I think you are spot on about why she was planning on "sabotaging" you. It does seem like a harsh word, especially as she probably isn't acting this way consciously, but subconsciously.

It's hard to watch your friends change, whether they are changing for the better or the worse.

I sometimes listen to Dr. Joy Brown and she has one statement - "Act stupid and cheerful" I like (and used before i ever heard her say). And that's probably the best way to deal with this friend if you want to stay friends with her.

[Missy]

It's human nature...and well, I just do my best to look past it. Quite frankly, I don't wish to lose a friend over the issue of FOOD either.

Yes, I'm determined...but I don't expect THOSE around me to truely "get it". I just do the best I can and correct myself the next nearest time I can. There will ALWAYS be situations like that.

I have a sister and Bil who "South Beach" for periods of time....and when they are "on" they are excellent..and when they are "off" horrible. THEY are rollercoaster "lose it gain it" type of people....and I just looked at their pattern and think, well, GOOD FOR ME to remain steady through the thick and thin. I'm doing what's right for me in a more consistant pattern. I'm pleased. AND....SOMETIMES I SCREW UP!?

I try NOT to judge them for their behavior, GOD KNOWS I understand all points of view...even if it's not necessarily supportive of ME at the moment.

Let's face it, it's A meal...a BLIP on the radar screen if you look at the BIG picture.

Friend, their attitudes, bad food are all just PART of life. WE are capable of dealing with it ALL.

[maxlharris]

A couple of things:

If you have made a real commitment to this WOE (the kind that will result in LT permanent weight loss and management), you will be making changes that are larger than just food. Food is the smallest (second most important) aspect.
Some quick thoughts on the changes that go beyond food:
You will look different. This is bigger than just pants sizes. This is the first thing people use to figure out their responses to you. And face it, a lot of people want to be thinner and look better in clothing (and out) but have yet to make the commitment you have. Jealous and bitter are sad reactions, but maybe a little understandable, considering 4 in 5 dieters fail to reach goal and 19 in 20 fail to maintain significant loss.

You will have more health. People who are healthier will do different things than people who are less so. More active, willing to take stairs, park further, whatever. It's a gap. A lot of people are uncomfortable with gaps. It's why there is a MENSA.

I could go on, but think about it. It's not just the food. It's the health, the look, the commitment. People like heroes on TV. A lot of people don't want a paragon of foodly virtue for a friend. It's hard to relate.

I wouldn't say you need to dump this person, but you might want to reevaluate and maybe recast the relationship.

I was told, in form of compliments, twice this past week that I need to stop losing weight. Aside from the fact that I am still technically overweight (and like 5 lbs from obesity by BMI) and still holding at least 8 lbs of fat above the top point of health for someone my age (by BF%).

One of the great things about rotating through jobs every few months is I get to come into a new office as someone with clothes that don't fit, instead of a fat guy losing weight. Although I have lost a lot of fat at current station, and folks notice, it's not like what I lost at my last station. March 5, I move on, and have new folks for 5 months, who will never know me above a weight of 225.5 or wherever I finish this month. I can see as this would be harder if I had to stay with one office (my first office, not so much, there was a woman who had dumped 130 lbs there, and it was the Health Promotion Office).

[Grandma Moe]

The only way I can deal with people like this is to not be around them any time I am having a day where I am not "spot on" with my food. If I have prepared myself ahead of time and eat and feel satisfied I am usually fine and can be accepting of their weird boundaries where they suddenly "care" what goes into my mouth. If they catch me off guard though and I have not eaten enough that day, I'm an easy target and I resent them for moving in on me in a moment of weakness (as if they have any idea that I have not eaten the things I needed to that day and was any weaker than normal).

I have a daughter who really has eating issues that stem from her having tonsils that made the opening in her throat so small that she gagged on solid food from the time it was introduced. She would not even eat french fries as a kid. I wish the doctors had listened to me when I told them I knew something was wrong, but I was young and they assured me that her not eating and gagging on food was just a phase that she would outgrow.

Well she was 4 years old before a doctor took one look down her throat and acted shocked at how huge they were. He couldn't believe that NO Dr. had noticed them and said that it was no wonder she could not eat as everything had to pass her uvula, (that hangy down thing in the back of your throat) which makes you gag, and we finally got them out.

It has been her life long struggle to be with people at any sit down dinner let alone Thanksgiving and holiday meals. People get very offended when she won't eat their "special dish" no matter how many times she tells them she doesn't want to even come if they are going to turn into the food police and watch what she does or does not eat.

She is aware that her eating habits are not good. She has struggled her whole life to overcome it and it really hurts her when people assume she doesn't try or doesn't realize what she is doing to herself.

I wish she ate better but I know she is doing the best she can. She is an adult with children of her own and I just try to remember that eating is a battle for her and she doesn't need anyone sabatoging her by making her feel bad about her food choices.

I wish everyone got that, but since they don't. If I find myself unprepared and in that situation, I give myself permission before it even starts to not engage with them over food. If that means eating somethings I'd rather not to keep the peace, so be it. If it means leaving early, so be it. If I can stand my ground without hating them, so be it. Mostly I trust myself to take in the whole situation and choose my response and what ever that is, I refuse to feel bad because someone else has crappy boundaries or is jealouse or has control issues.

---However, I do keep track of who supports me and who doesn't, and I do my best to keep my relationships that involve friends who have to sack my efforts to eat the way I want to, out of the food court. we do things together that do not involve food for the most part. That way I don't resent the hell out of them.

take care, Grandma Moe

[gitfiddle]

Stephie, I agree that it looks like you've got her number. Sometimes, it's guilt-induced anger, and since you're the reminder, you become the target. I love the "cheerful and stupid" advice! I think it shows them that I'm perfectly comfortable with the way I eat--no excuses necessary--and they are the ones exhibiting the questionable behavior.

I don't share my woe unless I'm asked and then only minimally unless they ask for more. It hurts me very much if I hear someone "dis" me for eating "weird", just because I'm sensitive about any negative feelings. I'd love to be bullet-proof, as some seem to be, but I'm not. When I'm sure I'm right, I can simply pity the speaker, but it still is an ouch.

I almost always have a bag of almonds or something in my possession for emergencies. Spaghetti dinners are the worst, but it's doable if they serve a salad alongside. :rolleyes:

[Karole]

Stephie, I feel bad for you as it must hurt to have your friend plan something she obviously knew would be off target for you.
I think you have it right and I think she knows in her heart she should be doing something about her own diet issues .
And , if she has diabetes she really needs to focus on her health. Is she in denial about the dangers of that disease? Having lost a very good friend and also an acquaintance to diabetes related illness I am very aware of the havoc it can cause with the human body. It is not something to ignore and it just seems so many people don't give it the gravity it deserves. I hope that if she sees you persevering she will begin to think about it in a positive way for herself. In the mean time you are doing great and you are prepared so good for you. Take care and good luck with your friend.

[laughingW]

In my experience all this stuff boils down to "do you still love me." I see it not just with diet but when someone starts acting like an athlete, too. Bed on time, going to the gym, all that.

Not to say it isn't still tricky. Sometimes the old ways of love were just drinking/eating buddies, and no, don't wanna love that way any more. But I might say I'd like to find new ways to love ya.

The more confident I am in my food program the more the arrows bounce right off. Sometimes I've even said - "what is touching you that wants me to eat that?' boy is that intrusive, LOL. The intrusive psycho approach.

For less close people and just plain rude food pushers I take the gloves off if I'm in the mood. it's like I learned in my women's self-defense class. When the perpetrator has broken the rules of society, not only do you not have to worry about being mean, but it's your duty now to protect society and you can break some knees with a clean conscience. Food pushing means you said "no" twice and they keep going BTW unless you're in the south I think, they can go on a little more.

Pusher: "no really, you Must Have Some."

The Threat of GastroIntestinal Incident
"um, not today, tummy upset."
Then you give them the really big eyes that makes them fearful about which end you're talking about, and will it happen any second.

The Scary Athlete in Training
"No really, I need to make weight for the Regionals in Womens Masters
JiuJitsu."
And give them the fierce-competitor look like they're In Your Effing Way.

The Southern Dagger
"oh, my, you are really pushing hard, bless your heart"?
For those of you not in the know of the American South -
you can say harsh things about, or to, another person as
long as you also add, "bless their heart."
The victim doesn't know whether to be pleased to
be blessed, or embarrassed at what they've just been called on.
You leave while they puzzle it out.

The Too Much Information
"really? if I have this now, will you be with me this evening when I
have massive cravings triggered by the beta-endorphin priming? Will you
talk me down? Or will you bring over junk food and be my binge buddy?
no? well then get outta my face."
Nuff said.

The Fake Doctor
"no really, doctor's orders."
No doctor in particular so that's why this is fake.

The Medical Downer
"no thanks, I don't need any more risk factors for diabetes."
This is related to the fake doctor. Usually brings the jovial
mood of sharing treats to a crashing halt. Plus it says you're
making the choice and I rarely have people continue after that.

The Rude Right Back
"do I look like I need more candy?"
This one works best if you're still fat.
If I were thin I'd go for the hyper, off-the-wall-with-sugar vibe.

The Self-Deprecating Humor
"I've already had my lifetime servings, thanks anyway."
This also works if you're fat. It embarrasses them
by calling attention to the obvious but also puts
you in the "used to be a good old boy" category.

[AT22]

I like the suggestions, laughingW! I may have to use them.

I am not overweight. I'm small to kinda small, depending. I work out and have since I was about 16 and played sports before that up until last year. I gained about 15 pounds in college and then lost it plus some. Then gained some and lost again. Then gained a few and have lost again (that dreaded 5 pounds). I have always eaten a fairly "healthy" diet, depending on your definition. And I think this makes people jealous because they cannot or don't want to do what I do.

So, I get a lot of "but you don't need to work out" or "why are you on a diet" or "why don't you eat carbs" or "how are you so thin and you eat all that fat", etc... I also tend not to drink a lot but have a lot of friends for whom that is their social activity. So I hear, "we have to get you drinking" or "one beer won't hurt". I think these people are either jealous or feel guilty about what they may perceive as faults that I don't have that they do or can't control (whether that is true is totally irrelevant to them). This leads to heckling. I just try and play it off and sometimes use the "I'm not feeling well" card. Of course, now everyone thinks I'm super sickly :)

But I have my own goals - like losing more bodyfat -, feelings, and issues, and it is none of their business to tell me what will or will not hurt me. They don't necessarily know that I have had blood sugar and gastrointestinal problems since I can remember and that if I eat and drink all willy nilly I'll be hurting! And maybe they don't understand that I have things to do the next day for which I would rather not be hung over. Or that I gain weight pretty easily even though I may not look "fat" to them. Or that I may have some emotional issues related to all of this that I can control better if I do what I do. And often, I get comments from my super skinny (size 0 - maybe?) friend, and all I can think is that she doesn't want any competition.

It is not their right to try and control me or hold me back. It is also not your friend's right to, KNOWING what you are trying to accomplish, completely and utterly destroy your plans. It doesn't make her a bad person, it just makes her someone that really doesn't understand (and is jealous, I agree with that) or care to take you as you are.

But, it totally happens. And I don't know what you do. If I followed my own message above, I'd have few friends (although I can immediately think of who they are)! But I don't. I think you have to know it's your right to do what you want, accept their issues with that, forgive it and try and blow it off the next time. You just have to stand your ground as often as you can.

It's not easy to be your own person, but it is the only thing that will truly make you happy, I think.

[AT22]

And look at Gaelen's message in the polyalcohols thread, right below this one:

She said: "the ultimate 'solution' when everyone keeps saying "eat a piece of nougat; it's Christmas" is to remember that your menu choices are about YOUR needs...not about letting them satisfy their needs to get you eating whatever they think is appropriate holiday food. ;)" And then commented a little on when she was vegetarian.

Totally applies here!

[Karole]

LaughingW TOOOOO FUNNNNY. You have some well thought out fixes for our problem friends. I need to copy those down !!

[Stephie]

Wow, what a great group! It's nice to know I'll at least always have friends here who will never try to sabotage my eating!

You've all given me a lot to think about. The more I think about the situation, the more I'm sure it is jealousy, and I think she is not doing it on purpose, she's not the type to ever do that. If I were her I really might feel the same way.

For those of you who followed the January challenge, this is the same friend I mentioned who I fear doesn't really LIVE life or take the time to stop and smell the roses.

I think we've all been in places where we've thought "Wow, I'm so happy she's getting married, but I sure wish it were me." "I'm glad he got that promotion, but I really think I deserve one too". "Their baby is so cute, why haven't I had one yet?" Where you really are happy for the person, but a little jealous, and maybe deep inside you almost wish you could trade places with them, or at least magically acquire whatever it is they have that you want.

In the past nine months I've really reached a point where I don't want to trade places with anyone. I don't want anyone else's life. I am so happy with my life, my husband and where I am. The only thing I want to change is my health. And I've got the knowledge and the power to do whatever I want with my health, and I know it. This confidence and happiness must come across to my closest friends, and for those who are struggling, for those who may still want to trade places with someone, I bet it is hard to see.

If I really try to put myself in her shoes, I think I understand.

Thankfully, she is the kind of friend, the dearest most special kind, that if I really had to, I could honestly say to her "Look, you know how badly I want a baby. I'll never have one if I don't do this. If I do have a baby, and I don't take care of my health, I'm going to die long before my time and leave the baby/child without a mother. Is that what you really want?"

I think as long as I'm not eating at her house, I'll be OK. If I am invited to her house I'll just eat before I go or take something along to share, a cheese tray or deviled eggs or my latest low-carb recipe trial. If she tries to force something on me that will only make me more determined to not slip, to prove to her that she does not have the power to make me.

As for as others who may try to sabotage me or tell me what to do: I'm just over that. The food I eat only impacts me and my health. So the ONLY person who has any say in what I put in my mouth is me. I can choose healthy or poorly, but ultimately only I choose. I don't know if it's maturity or confidence, but I don't hesitate to tell the waitress to hold the bread or the pancakes. To tell my friends, husband or mother in law that I'm not going to the italian restaurant or chinese buffet. I'm so much more serious about this than I ever have been, and no one outside of me is going to stop me.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts and suggestions! I hope they'll be helpful to others too!

[Missy]

Looks like you've worked it out Stephie! Good for you!

Just keep on doin' you own thing! :D

[Grandma Moe]

LaughingW. those are the best comebacks I have ever heard. ROTFLMAO

[Bugzita]

Hello,

Later this month, my dh and I are spending a week in Macedonia, where serving food to guests is considered the height of good manners, and it's considered ill-mannered to refuse food served by a host.

I called my friend (we're staying with her) and told her what I'm doing. I emphasized that my diet was prescribed to me by my doctor because of my insulin problem and that it was prescribed for my health (which is true). I told her that I might be eating strange foods but not to worry about fixing anything special for me because I can always eat the Greek salads, etc. I offered to even make my special full carb spaghetti one night for everyone (I'll just hold back some of the meat for myself.) We lived in Skopje in 2004-2005, so we know all the grocery stores, markets, and butchers. We know of a great meat market in Skopje that sells the world's BEST ham--it's absolutely succulent. I will eat that in place of bacon (which isn't so great there). Eggs are a staple :D .

Lile will spread the word to our other friends. Fortunately, I don't have to refuse having a drink or two--I'll just plan for it and SIP (which I do anyway--not a big drinker).

I stressed to her what I CAN have: we can still go out for cappuccino, one of our favorite rituals--I just have to get mine without sugar, but I can still have the whipped cream (absolutely real there). How cool is that?

We can't control how our friends react to our new WOE, but we can be honest (in a nice way) by stressing the foods we can have and reassuring them that they don't have to do anything special for us. I know that I'll be bringing some beef jerky along--it's light, filling (at least for me), and totable. And meat in general is no problem. Everywhere, they have Skarras (meat-based eateries that sell grilled meat, sometimes on skewers), and all the grocery stores sell nice meat and fish.

Your friend WILL come around--that is, if she values your friendship. One way you can help her accept your new WOE: don't talk about your program all the time (I'm not saying that's what YOU do, but it's a tendency of mine).

People not on diets really don't want to hear it constantly because, to them, it sounds like preaching (even if one doesn't mean it that way). And PP might not be right for everyone. Some people, typically the "I-need-to-lose-five-pounds" dieters, can do the regular low cal diet and do just fine (and keep the weight off).

Simply show by example, and let it go at that. Eventually your friend will know that you're not foisting your diet on her--that it's all about what's good for YOU.

We just have to take care of our own needs, and PP is what we need now. I don't think it is at all selfish when we take care of our bodies by refusing food that is not good for us.

Bugzita

[lah]

(((Stephie)))

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this kind of issue. Yes, it is hard to know what to say or do. I have had this happen from a good friend of mine. Being a person with a short fuse:rolleyes: , my first response was rather mean, I spoke before I thought. That did no good to the relationship, and I felt guilty once I got over being mad. It made me think about what might have been said or done, though, so the next time it happened I was better prepared. When my friend said that she would be offended if I didn't eat what she was having I asked her "Why? Do you want me to get sidetracked from my diet and fail? You know how hard it is for me to keep on plan (we had discussed this before) and now you are asking me to deliberately set it aside. Why?" She got a bit red and said "It's no fun for me if you are doing what you're supposed to do while I am not." Next thing you know she was in tears and apologizing and we were hugging and making up. She has never done that to me again, and we are still friends. Just getting her to think about it made her realize it was HER problem. I wasn't asking her to change anything, I just wanted her to RESPECT my decision.

YMMV, hope you can find a solution that works for you. Sorry this is so long!

Lee

[mark]

I understand just what u mean! I have a loving family who continually offer me carbs. I just try to give it a taste so as not to hurt their feelings and then eat my food instead. I have been scolded for eating the topping of a piece of pizza. Annoying. It is kind of like not drinking in a crowd of alcoholics-or so I've heard!