The Omnivore's Dilemma

[dvdmon]

I just finished this book and found it really fascinating. It has some problems, most notably the author's seeming distaste for low-carb diets, but thankfully this is contained within a very short part of this rather long book. The book does get awfully wordy, especially toward this end, but there is so much great information that it can really make one rethink how one views food. I've written up a pretty sizable review on my blog, for those who are interested in a more in-depth description about the book: http://twelveblackcodemonkeys.com/omnivoresdilemma.htm

[Panama]

I just finished it myself! Actually, decided to stop reading in the last section of the book, the vegetarian debate just wasn't interesting to me.

I liked it, but I do question some of his information. For instance, the assertion that fertilizer comes from petroleum is rather misleading. That isn't quite true. It makes use of one of the by-products of refining oil, sulpher. And it does use natural gas to separate nitrogen from air. But he makes it sound like we're using up petroleum to make fertilizer.

I was also astounded to hear that the raw grain product in cereal costs only 4 cents!

And reading about Polyface farm was incredible! It kind of deflates the vegetarian argument about it being better to raise the crops to feed people, versus feeding animals that feed people. Ruminants should be converting sunlight into food for people (via grasses) for free.

It also made me think that a sustainable farm like that could provide a very good living for people. I was looking into the prices of pasture fed beef in my state and it is exorbitant! Something like 185.00 for 11 pounds. Good golly.

[dvdmon]

Hi Panama. There seems to be a lot of people questioning Pollan's information of various kinds. Regarding petroleum, it does seem like he uses a bit too much poetic license by equating chemical fertilizer with oil. What I found probably more clear was the idea that it took a lot more energy to produce the same thing as on a more sustainable farm. Part of this is due to shipping things across the country (or farther), part has to do with all the waste management, buying the feed, the pesticides, and the fertilizer, etc. Still it ends up cheaper to eat the industrial stuff because of economies of scale and a lot of subsidies, and simply not being able to sell comoditized crops like corn or soy, or even beef at anything but the market price, whereas sustainable farms can sell it for the true cost of the item, or even with a small markup since they are essentially saying that their product is distinct from others on the market...

As far as the price of this stuff, I suppose it can support farmers, but I doubt they are getting filthy rich, at least not the smaller ones. Seems like it's a lot of work, and I'd certainly rather be paying a little more to them then to the faceless companies that produce most of the food for this country - well, if I could afford it. That's the main catch. I'm not struggling by any means and yet it is hard to buy exclusively from such farms because it would certainly have a huge impact on my cash flow. Unfortunately most people simply wouldn't be able to even consider doing that. When you are poor, as Pollan notes, you tend to buy the cheapest calories you can find. Of course in other cultures where food quality is still the main thing, even poor people will make quality food a priority...

[Panama]

I thought he was saying that fertilizer is literally created from petroleum, and it seems to be a common belief out there, but when I dug a bit deeper I found it wasn't.

Oh, totally agree with the hideousness of the industrial food. Could a system be more horked up? I can't imagine how! Wow, there's a few companies (ADM, Conagra) out there that have nicely lined nests though, eh? It might be time to put some pressure on the current crop of politicians about this.

I think pasture fed food is especially outrageous in CA because of the land prices out here. I doubt people in the mid-west or east or south are pinched like that. Also, I'd have to drive up to Northern CA, a good 2 days drive, to find a farmer to do business with. I'm a little jealous of those who have ruralness closer to home.

[dvdmon]

Hi Panama. I'm not sure of all the exact phrasing that Pollan uses about petroleum. I know that at times I had in mind that oil was one of the DIRECT ingredients of fertilizers, but when I had to explain it to someone this didn't sound right and so I said that it was used as an energy source to make it. So I think Pollan probably said the same thing when initially describing it but then used poetic license after that which made it seem more direct. I can't go back and check as I listened to it as an audio book and have deleted it, so I'd have to redownload it and search for that part, which is a lot harder than finding it in a book!

Doing a bit of searching on the web, it sounds like he also was not particularly dilligent (at least according to Wholefoods) about researching their company and how they still use small local farms when they can: http://www.wholefoods.com/blogs/jm/archives/2006/05/an_open_letter_1.html

It's a shame that Pollan (and/or his publisher) was not more careful in getting all of his facts straight before publishing the book. Most non-fiction books manage to have at least a bit of inaccuracy about them, and now that the internet is hear, this seems more and more inexcusable. I think more authors should vet their work online. Maybe have a kind of "beta" version so that those who might be able to contribute some confirmation of facts, or simply reveal flaws that the author can't see. It doesn't even have to be totally public, but rather you'd have to apply for it. That way you don't get a zillion cranks who may have nothing to say or just useless advice.

[Panama]

It's a shame that Pollan (and/or his publisher) was not more careful in getting all of his facts straight before publishing the book. Most non-fiction books manage to have at least a bit of inaccuracy about them, and now that the internet is hear, this seems more and more inexcusable. I think more authors should vet their work online. Maybe have a kind of "beta" version so that those who might be able to contribute some confirmation of facts, or simply reveal flaws that the author can't see. It doesn't even have to be totally public, but rather you'd have to apply for it. That way you don't get a zillion cranks who may have nothing to say or just useless advice.
I completely agree! Any more it seems like laziness not to check on facts like that. I did about 5 minutes of searching for petroleum and fertilizer and found enough information to debunk much of what he wrote about that. He could have said the processing of synthetic fertilizers uses a lot of energy, which is true, or that herbicides are made from petroleum distillates (also true), or that running a tractor around applying these uses a lot of energy and that trucking stuff around uses a lot of energy.

I thought Whole Foods was promoting using "local food" so I was surprised when I read the opposite in his book.

Still... all in all it was a great book and it made me really appreciate how things are changing for the better. Have you noticed how much nicer organic foods are looking nowadays?

[Panama]

Wow! That letter from whole foods is practically a book in and of itself! What a bloody shame Mr. Pollan didn't contact them.

[dvdmon]

Heheh. Yeah. As I mentioned in my review, I'm only about 2.5 hours from Polyface, so one day I'd really like to go down there and visit, although I'm not sure I'm ready to witness the chickens being killed just yet! They do deliver to drop points in my area, but from what I recall it was kind of hit or miss as to what they would have enough of, so you aren't guarenteed you'll get all you order. There's another place in Maryland which is actually a little closer - maybe an hour and a half - which will deliver to your door, but I don't know much about them because it doesn't go into great detail on their website other to say that their cattle is grass fed. They don't mention how their chickens are raised, or pigs, lambs, etc. I tried contacting them on their website, but their form was broken and there was no email, so I'll have to call them to ask these questions. I've also used a coop service which gets a number of items from neighboring farms in PA.

[dvdmon]

Wow! That letter from whole foods is practically a book in and of itself! What a bloody shame Mr. Pollan didn't contact them.

Yeah. I haven't seen any response by him about any of these things, but then it seems like he's not going on shows to debate his ideas, but rather just friendly interviews on NPR and such...

[Panama]

I'm very jealous. :) I'd have to drive probably 2 days to find a pasture feeding meat farmer.

[deirdra]

Sulphur readily precipitates during sour gas production and you will see piles of yellow sulphur near many gas plants. This sulphur came from the Earth's crust and is commonly found in soil, so it is merely being returned to the Earth when used as fertilizer to replace the sulphur consumed by growing plants.

And since I am clearing up popular misconceptions, petroleum is not derived from decayed dinosaurs, it comes primarily from dead vegetation - algae in marine environments, plants in terrestrial environments.

[dvdmon]

Sulphur precipitates during sour gas production and you can see piles of yellow sulfur near many gas plants. This sulphur came from the Earth's crust and is commonly found in soil, so it is merely being returned to the Earth when used as fertilizer. And petroleum is not derived from decayed dinosaurs (another popular misconception), it comes primarily from dead vegetation - algae in marine environments, plants in terrestrial environments.

Ok, but even so, sorry I'm not getting what your point is in relation to the book?

[deirdra]

When I read one obviously wrong statement, I tend to question other statements in anything I read until I research them myself. The sulphur that comes from gas production is identical to the sulphur that weathers out of rock as it becomes soil. I.e. fertilizer is not oil. I do wish I could afford to eat only organic food and that we had Whole Foods stores here!

[dvdmon]

Ah, did he say "dead dinosours"? That's actually one I'd forgive him on simply because it has become a cliche, but you're right, it's unfortunate that all these inaccuracies make his other points, which may be very valid, questionable as well. Unfortunately, those who dismiss natural foods will use these inaccuracies to dismiss the whole book, while most of those who believe in natural foods will simply not question anything in the book...

[deirdra]

Yes, I feel the same way - most of what he says is dead-on, but the inaccuracies can cause others to dismiss the whole book. And the politicos who could actually do something to improve food production are likely to be in that group of "others"; so they'll just continue to listen to Big Agra and Big Pharma.

[suzyc14]

I have just started reading this book and I really like it. I do understand that with everything, there could be inaccuracies and bias, but I am trying to get more knowledge from it in order to make more informed choices. So far I do feel that I know much more about food processing and growing and I am not even half way done!