New here -- 1 week and gaining

[peggyjo]

Hi.

First, let me say I've been lurking and reading here and there on the forum for a couple of weeks now. Seems to be a great atmosphere here -- you all seem very supportive and knowledgeable!

I've just completed a week following PP eating guidelines -- aiming for 100+ g of protein per day (I'm 5'9.5" and 215 pounds right now) and 40g or less of carbs.

I have gained a pound! :mad:

Does this not work for some folks? I followed the old PP book for a few months several years ago and lost, so I have been very surprised this week. :eek:

I'd appreciated any guidance from you "old hands" -- Thanks!

[Billie]

While we all want to see that scale drop quickly, it doesn't always do that. biggest tip i can give you is to stay off the scale.

And here is why:


IF we are eating on the program plan the right way, the good solid protein, veggies and fruits, lots of water we will lose weight, it takes our metabolism sometimes to change.
That metabolism has been tricked before by us you know, many times lots of diets or quick fixes our body is unsure if it is going to lose or gain or what is coming down the pike, in other words out body needs time to capture what is going on
Next thing of course could be what you were wearing, time of month, did you weigh at the same time, did you have a glass of water before you got on the scale--I mean we are talking 16 ounces here. Did you dinner last night have alot of sodium in it? Are you having a lot of sugar alcohols?
There are a million reasons!


But the most important thing to realize is that you are doing this for your good health. Your body is reacting in many ways give it time to do so. The whooooosh fairy will visit or the measurement fairy will see some movement or the cholestrol or BP will be normalized, just let the program work!

Thanks for stopping in, you are right there are some great people here, always willing to help! Please join us often!

[Mitra]

Welcome, Peggyjo :).

For most people, losing weight seems to get harder as we get older, so it may be different this time from your previous experience. For some people there is a rapid loss of a few pounds of water weight in the first week, but that doesn't seem to happen to everybody. It's quite normal for weight to vary by a couple of pounds or more from day to day, so if you lose weight at a pound a week, you may not see a downward movement everyweek. A change of one pound either way really isn't enough to say what's happening. A gain in muscle from exercising, a bit of extra fluid retention from hormonal fluctuations or something you ate, minor infections, allergies ... all sorts of things can cause your body to hang on to a few pounds of extra water, which masks any fat burning that's been going on.

Give it a little bit more time, and why don't you join in the daily menu thread for a few days, and ask for some feedback on what you're eating, just to check that you're on the right track?

[paleogirl]

Hi Peggyjo. :)

I am working off Protein Power not the Lifeplan version, but I thought I read that carbs should be under 30g inititally? I personally don't lose unless I'm under 20g, although I am very near goal, so perhaps that is why. If I were you I would lower carbs to 20-30 and see if you get into ketosis (fat burning state). You can check by purchasing ketone testing strips. I'm not saying you need to be in ketosis to burn fat of course, but if you want to kick-start things it's a very good way to get your body used to running off fat rather than carbs (and the amazing energy and sense of well-bring is great!). It usually only takes 2 or 3 days to make the 'switch'. When I'm at <20 carbs I'm usually eating ~100g protein (my minimum is 60g) and ~75+g fat by the way, and taking in a few more calories than I would if I was at 30g carbs, but the food seems to turn straight into fuel - I will finish eating and feel my body get warmer as if the furnace has been stoked! :D

Also, as others have said, bear in mind that muscle weighs more than fat but you will be smaller with muscle in place of fat. Protein Power is more about body fat percentages than scale weight. I have actually only lost 2lbs in scale weight in 9 days, but thanks to 10 mins of gentle jogging or fast walking each morning and a few sets of exercises with some 5lb weights, plus generous amounts of good quality protein and fat, my muscle tone has increased a lot and I've lost an inch around my stomach. I can see in my face and neck that I've lost fat, but as far as the scale goes, 2lbs is really not much to celebrate! It looks and feels like I've lost a lot more.

Anyway, this is just an idea to kick-start things. If you keep on doing what you're doing I'm sure you will also make progress. :)

[Mitra]

Paleogirl, PPLP allows 40g carb per day (3 meals of up to 10g, plus snack/s). The Eadeses found that for most people there wasn't much benefit in cutting carbs further than that. And they don't generally recommend using ketostix, because so many things (such as how much water you drink, and whether you're adapted to fat-burning and therefore using up all the ketones) can affect the readings. Some people like to have a visual confirmation that fat is being burned in the very early days, but they don't tell you if it's dietary or body fat, and apparently work less well once your body's adapted to the changeover from using mainly carbs as fuel.

[peggyjo]

Thanks to all for the replies!

I have been keeping track of my intake with some software. When I get some time later I'll post some of my meals over in the other forum. Thanks for the suggestion there.

I'm really interested in the health benefits in addition to weight loss concerns (although I need to lose weight to get health, right? I'm 70 pounds over a high-end ideal right now). Since I figure things like lower BP and lower triglycerides will take a while, I was hoping for at least a slight dip in weight to keep the motivation going! :D

I always feel better when I'm not eating piles of carbs.

Here's another question: Do any of you have trouble getting in the recommended amount of protein? I feel like I'm eating way too much food. I'm having to force-feed myself at times pretty far beyond my where my appetite is telling me to stop. That can't be a good thing?

Also, I've had 3 LC tortillas this week. They seem too good to be true -- do they cause problems for some?

[Missy]

HI Peggyjo! Welcome!

Personally, I find protein powder drinks a good cheater (not really cheating) but a good way to get the protein in without it being something to chew.

[laughingW]

I do much better using the original formula for protein. (the one in the first PP book, not Lifeplan).

The simplifications in the new book mean that protein is way over for a person who happens to be really short and really fat, like me.

Old way = 20 per meal, 60 per day
New way = 40 per meal, 120 per day

But for that one you have to guesstimate your bodyfat percentage.
None of them are very reliable for high bodyfat but the most
believable I've found is "Uncle Chuck's," method 3, because it uses the most measuring points with a tape measure:

http://www.eskimo.com/~cdickens/FatCalculatorF3.html

[Mitra]

It's true that the calculations in PPLP are more accurate, but at 5' 9 1/2", they probably won't give you a very low figure. Here's a description of how to calculate it that I posted last time this subject came up (the second link is the same as the one LaughingW posted above):


First, calculate your body fat %. Some scales (Tanita is the best known brand) will measure it, a gym or doctor can do caliper measurements of skin-fold thickness to get a figure, or there are various ways to calculate it from body measurements. A couple of on-line ones are here (http://www.he.net/~zone/prothd2.html) (this one gives me a BF of 22%) and there are three different ones for women, two for men here (http://www.eskimo.com/~cdickens/FatCalculators.html). (No. 1: 15.9%; No. 2: 21.8%; No 3: 23.1% - method one is clearly way out for my body shape!). My Tanita scales say 21.9%, and so does the PP calculation.

Once you have a body fat figure, you're ready to go. Weight times body fat%, divided by 100 gives you the number of pounds of fat. Subtract that figure from your weight, and that's your lean body mass.

As an example:
My weight is 112 times 22/100 = 24.6 which I'll round to 25 lbs fat

112 - 25 = 87 lb LBM

Then multiply LBM by:
0.5 if you are totally sedentary - no exercise at all;
0.6 if you do 20-30 mins exercise 2 or 3 times per week;
0.7 if you do at least 30 mins 3 to 5 times per week;
0.8 if you do vigorous activity for at least an hour 5 or more times per week;
0.9 if you exercise at competitive athlete level.


I do about half an hour of exercise (sometimes a bit under, rarely over) at least five times a week, so I'll use the 0.7 multiplier to get a protein requirement of 60.9 g per day. I'm 5' 2" with a smallish frame, so most people will need more protein than that.

I'm on the 20/27g per meal border in PPLP. Using the PP calculation, I get just over 60, so there's not too much difference, but the PPLP numbers have to make assumptions about fat % and activity levels, and they tend to err on the higher side to make sure most people using the estimates will get enough protein.

[paleogirl]

Paleogirl, PPLP allows 40g carb per day (3 meals of up to 10g, plus snack/s).

Ahh... yeah, that's what I thought must've happened, I thought "I could swear my book said 30!" :confused:

I hear you on the stix also. Just throwing ideas out there. I know how frustrating a stall can be or, even more so, starting a new way of eating and gaining instead of losing. I myself find they are a good motivational tool if I am shooting for ketosis (or rather, to stay there for a few days) and in my body right now, ketosis = fat loss, out of ketosis = maintain weight. But as I said, I'm very near goal so 1g carbs this way or that really seems to make the difference between lose and maintain, so the science experiment angle seems to help me! :D Plus, it's just fun to pee on a stick! :lol:

[paleogirl]

Here's another question: Do any of you have trouble getting in the recommended amount of protein? I feel like I'm eating way too much food. I'm having to force-feed myself at times pretty far beyond my where my appetite is telling me to stop. That can't be a good thing?

I have problems eating less than twice my recommended protein! (Ok, slight exaggeration, but I usually get ~100g without trying). I think that's because I'm totally grain-free, so my meals are mainly protein. And my snacks are usually all protein. Eg: a 3.5 oz can of tuna is 31g protein. That's half my daily recommended instake right there, and it's a snack! :eek:

[peggyjo]

Mitra and laughingW --
Thanks for the links for calculating BF. Once I got past my dismay at my numbers, I found it helpful to be able to compare the results from the different methods. I have a fairly small frame for my height, and the methods that took wrist size or forearm size into consideration gave me higher BF% numbers that I believe are more accurate for me. I came up with a requirement of 105 g per day of protein (vs. 120 g per day in the charts in PPLP).

Over the past week, I averaged per day:

1864 cal
41.0 g carb (includes 7.8 g fiber, so net is 33 g ?)
116.3 g protein
140 g fat

So -- looks like protein and carbs are within the guidelines.

Missy --
Thanks for the tip about the shakes! I'm already there -- with a 2-scoop shake for breakfast (my least hungry time of day) for a total of 36 g protein.

****
Thanks again to everyone for their help! I've been going back and forth about which plan to commit to and kept coming back to PP as the most sensible. I have been keeping up with Dr. Mike's blog, and I like all the Eades books -- good stuff.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet!

[LisaS]

Here's another question: Do any of you have trouble getting in the recommended amount of protein? I feel like I'm eating way too much food. I'm having to force-feed myself at times pretty far beyond my where my appetite is telling me to stop. That can't be a good thing?

Also, I've had 3 LC tortillas this week. They seem too good to be true -- do they cause problems for some?

I eat the LC tortillas too - 3 or so a week probably. Either as a main meal wrap or a quesadilla/pizza snack. They don't cause me any problems so far. If I was looking for something to cut, they'd probably be near the top as they are the most processed thing I eat.

when you post some of your menus we'll be able to give you better feedback on your protein and food loads. My target from PPLP is 34g PRO/meal and that's just 4 oz of chicken (9g/oz*4oz=36) or a can of tuna (2.5 serv*13g/serv=32) so I don't have much of a problem getting those in. Usually I have a larger portion at dinner and am a little lighter at lunch. I also try to exceed my protein target a little overall because I try to be more active rather than less active.

[peggyjo]

Paleogirl --

When I did PP several years ago, it was with the PP book. (I just bought it again to read, and I can't find it!) At any rate, the 30 g figure for carbs sounds very familiar to me, so I'm probably remembering it from there. I had to doublecheck the 40 g allowance in PPLP because it seemed high to me.

[LisaS]

41.0 g carb (includes 7.8 g fiber, so net is 33 g ?)


yes on the ECC - assuming you are in US and using standard US labels and USDA based charts/software.

looks a little light on fiber - not that you have to eat fiber - just that your CHO sources must not be the more fibrous ones.

[Synetos]

Hi all

My first post here. I thought I would chime in on my experience following the PPLP over the last several weeks.

I have lost a total of ~19lbs. And have slowed to an average of 1-2lbs a week for the last 3 weeks.

I went from borderline high BP - averaging 135/89 to 118/70 at my doctors appointment yesterday.

I use to take Aciphex for GERD every day for the last 4 years, but stopped taking them completely about 5 weeks ago. I do not have Heartburn anymore. Sometimes I will get a little hint that it might be starting, but I have been able to quickly relieve it by simply drinking more water.

I have joined a Gym and been lifting weights for the last 3 weeks, as well as, alot of walking.

While the scale seems slow to move, I have lost 4 inches off my waistline. I think I am gaining muscle weight, which is fine by me.

I am trying to convince my sister that this is a great plan. She has Crohn's disease. From what I have read, this should help her. I gave her a copy of the book.

I started out at ~244 lbs and am now ~225. My target is below 20% bodyfat...I dont care about what I weigh (except I still seem to weigh myself on the scale). I need to toss the scale or ask my wife to hide it...hehe.

Anyway, I love this plan and hope I can stay on track.

[Synetos]

One other point about Ketosis test stix - I have stayed in the pink for 5 weeks now. I test everyday. Rarely get past the small to moderating level, but I have never dropped out...at least not that I am aware of. I usually test in the evening after getting home from work.

[peggyjo]

Lisa--
Thanks for the info on the LC tortillas. I think it's wise to limit such things, but it's nice to be able to have a burrito or wrap occasionally. I'm not interested in getting acquainted with the other so-called LC treats -- I know that would be a slippery slope for me. I can't believe these tortillas are really only 3 ECC.
The label must be wrong... :paranoid:

I'll head over to post some menus in the other forum as soon as I finish up this post.

Synetos--
My BP has always been really low, until this last year -- now it's just a hair under your borderline low numbers. This and a fasting blood glucose number that is just under where the doctor would start noticing have been enough to get me to take this stuff seriously now. I feel fortunate I haven't had too much trouble with indigestion. Instead I have really sore feet when I eat carbs. I guess we each have our own special carb-overload indicators...

I had planned to start an exercise program this week, but had migraine followed by pulled back muscle getting in my way. (Boy, I'm *really* avoiding this exercise thing!) At any rate, I hope to follow your lead and trade fat for muscle as soon as my back gets a little easier to live with.

[Gabriel Guzman]

The most challenging part of this plan, as surprising as it may be for some, is not adjusting to new eating habits (eating more protein, and learning how to manage/control carb intake, for example), but to unlearn everything you think you knew about nutrition.

There are so many things to unlearn here, from the fact that dietary carbohydrates are not essential, to the myth that ketosis equals weight loss. There is no shred of evidence for either one, yet we sometimes get so worked up and dwell on the same old thinking. Some say is human nature, which is a good excuse for most things we don't want to change. Weight loss doesn't start with the food you eat... it really starts in your brain, when you're able to let go of the wrong information and are willing to accept new one. Incidentally, Billie just wrote a nice reply to another post on this board regarding ketosis. It's worth reading.

When adopting this plan, many things need to be learned. Eating is one of those things. I used to skip breakfast all together and I literally had to learn how to eat breakfast and I had to learn to my minimum protein intake. However, it didn't take long before I couldn't go on without having my protein-rich breakfast. I never rely on shakes and the like as substitutes of anything, except when I felt the need to snack on something. Then a nice shake made with a good quality protein powder was not only nutritious but also refreshing. While in our minds it may seem as 'all that food' at the beginning, the body gets used to that intake (which it really needs) and then it's hard to go on with less. When we go off track and back to the old habits of carb-laden food, the body 'learns' again to want those foods and it makes it difficult to get back on track. The take home message is that changing eating habits is also a matter of learning and training the body to do so. Then, the physiology we have evolved and are wired with takes over to make things happen. Peggyjo, with only one week on the plan, a lot of things inside your body have started to happen already, things that you can't see, and while it may seem 'a lot', it is important that you nurture your body with an adequate protein intake. Hence the importance of calculating (instead of estimating), our minimum protein intake based on our own measurements and level of physical activity (the cornerstone of this plan). Done that way, our protein intake is tailored to our own needs and there is no way we can 'overdo it'.

[peggyjo]

Thanks, Gabriel.


I used to skip breakfast all together and I literally had to learn how to eat breakfast and I had to learn to my minimum protein intake.

Shakes for breakfast are a step in the right direction for me -- I'm familiar with skipping breakfast! For most of my life that was my strategy for avoiding disabling low-blood-sugar attacks. If I didn't eat, I wouldn't have a hypoglycemic episode. Still no appetite for breakfast, but I'm hoping that having a shake every day will at least get me in the habit, and maybe my appetite for something more will improve. In their books, don't the Eadeses talk about shakes being fine? I agree that real food is always best, though.


with only one week on the plan, a lot of things inside your body have started to happen already, things that you can't see,

I believe this -- I feel different/better already. It's not hugely dramatic for me, as I've cut carbs in the past, and some of this feeling better is familiar. I mentioned earlier that I hadn't been able to start exercising yet, but I *swear* my muscles feel more "alert," for want of a better description.


Hence the importance of calculating (instead of estimating), our minimum protein intake

Yes! I'm really kind of surprised at the use of charts in PPLP -- that seems like estimating to me. And the method in the 30-Day book is even less precise! I went ahead and calculated based on all the calculators folks posted yesterday (thanks, everyone!), and I'm confident I have a number that's more customized (and a little lower!) for me now.

I need to keep reminding myself it's about my health, and about the journey, and about some things I'm not even aware of yet. The weight loss results for me first week were a disappointment and a surprise, but I'll get over it! :)

[laughingW]

One other comment Peggyjo, that I discovered over time.

As a smaller person who dislikes heavy exertion, the end result is I don't have a very great "demand" for fuel, or energy "calories" (gasp, I said that word). Like the .5 or .6 multiplier.

I'm wondering, if you have a slight build, that means you are also not a giant fat-burning furnace like a barrel BBQ but more like a tabletop hibachi too, in terms of demand for fuel.

Now PP does not recommend looking at fat until you have the basics down. but for me, when I also down my fat, my fat loss started to go much faster. Now I am completely satisfied with the fat that automatically comes with lean and medium-fat meats, and a little olive oil and butter for sauteeing, or a drizzle on veggies. Only other fats are omega3 supplements.

So if I have 65 ish grams of protein, it comes out to 45 ish grams of fat. I didn't do this on purpose, I found it out by finding satisfying meals and then putting them into Fitday out of curiosity.

so you had 140 grams of fat per 115 grams of protein. If you are like me, you might feel happy and satisfied and see better results with fewer fat grams.

[Gabriel Guzman]

Believe it or not, the charts in PPLP come from calculating, rather than estimating. The Eades just made it easier as a guideline for those who have trouble calculating their protein intake. They've just done the calculating for us.

[peggyjo]

Now PP does not recommend looking at fat until you have the basics down. but for me, when I also down my fat, my fat loss started to go much faster.

Good point. I am tracking this all in software, so I'll keep an eye on the fat and also the calories. More as a point of interest right now -- I want to concentrate on the protein and carb stuff right now. But I suspect I am going to have to give the fat/calories some attention before I'm finished. If I continue to not lose anything, that'll happen sooner rather than later. :D


Believe it or not, the charts in PPLP come from calculating, rather than estimating. The Eades just made it easier as a guideline for those who have trouble calculating their protein intake. They've just done the calculating for us.

I must be looking at the wrong charts -- I only see that they're taking into account my height and weight. When I use the various methods that actually take into account the size of my frame, my BF percentage, and my level of activity, I get very different numbers for protein requirements. :confused:

[Billie]

Peggy it depends what book you have. in the PP book you have to do as you described with the exercise levels and wrist measurements etc. In the PPLP book they tried to simplify that for people.

On the Fat, I would advise you to follow the program before you start "nudging it". If you don't eat fat calories you may not be getting enough calories number one and that is crucial to lose weight. You have to eat to lose.

[peggyjo]

Peggy it depends what book you have. in the PP book you have to do as you described with the exercise levels and wrist measurements etc. In the PPLP book they tried to simplify that for people.

Yes, I understand. My comment was more about the big difference I get when comparing my protein requirement straight from the chart in PPLP versus the requirement I get when doing the calculations. The chart seems to take fewer things into consideration, therefore is more of an "estimate."


On the Fat, I would advise you to follow the program before you start "nudging it". If you don't eat fat calories you may not be getting enough calories number one and that is crucial to lose weight. You have to eat to lose.

I'm not at all trying to cut fat at this point -- just watching the numbers (as in looking at them, not trying to control them) as I go. At this point, I'm actually trying to ensure I get *enough* fat as a baseline. Which is why, for example, I'm throwing some coconut oil into my protein shakes. That's the only place I'm adding fat "on purpose." For the rest of my food items, I'm just taking what comes with the food (meat, eggs) or adding to taste or per recipe for vegetables, salads, etc.

Again, I appreciate everyone's comments. It's all helpful.

[peggyjo]

I wanted to provide a bit in the way of an update to this thread I started when I was feeling discouraged.

Two points:

1. After about 10 days of adhering strictly (I think, unless I misinterpreted something here or there) to the plan as outlined in the book (i.e., under 40 ECC per day), I took some measurements. I had actually lost an inch from my waist, so I think there was some recompositioning going on there -- I was surprised (and pleased), because I didn't think that was possible without exercise. (I have since been able to start exercising -- hooray! :D)
2. My mood *really* sucked (!) on that level of carbs, and I suspect that was causing my discouragement as much as my perceived lack of results. (I have since started adding some potato or an apple every 3rd night or so, and my mood has evened out.)

I just wanted to post this in case my (not true!) lack of "results" was discouraging someone else from trying this way of healthy eating.