PPBook

[Dennis]

To anyone,
PP blew me away but what about the direct effect on raising Protein levels in the blood? Is there a direct effect? I didnt see a chapter devoted to that even though the name of the book is Protein Power. :confused: :paranoid:
Thanks to anyone who has insight on this.

[Billie]

Deniis I am not quite sure what you mean, protein levels in the blood? Were you speaking about being anemic or having low blood levels of some kind?

[Mitra]

Normally, proteins are broken down in the small intestine into amino acids, which then pass into the blood stream and are delivered around the body. If the lining of the small intestine is inflamed, and allows whole proteins to pass through it ("leaky gut") then whole proteins may reach the blood stream, and certain plant proteins can cause problems (particularly those from grains and pulses, that are similar to certain of the body's own proteins and can be implicated in auto-immune disorders).

Is that what you were thinking of? There's a chapter on it in Protein Power LifePlan.

[Dennis]

Mitra,
Thanks for your reply. I'll try to be clearer. Does protein have a direct effect in lowering insulin/blood sugar? I didnt see any info regarding that and the name of the book is Protein Power. What exactly is the power of protein in lowering insulin/blood sugar?
Also, while I know the low carb thing works is anyone out there experiencing this thing where blood sugar goes up nat night and is fine during the day?? I know there is a "syndrome" to that effect. Do I assume glucagon is fine in the daylight hours but not at night? Thanks.:question: :confused:

[mcsblues]

Hi Dennis and welcome.

The Eades were not actually responsible for the title of their book (as is quite often the case these days), their publisher decided on "Protein Power". So the 'power of protein' is not its insulin/blood sugar lowering action - but if you replace most of your carbohydrates with protein and fat as they suggest, dramatic improvements in blood sugar control will undoubtedly ensue anyway. The other powerful effect of eating a higher protein content diet is that the resultant satiating effect will likely see you eat less , and this combined with stable blood sugar and low insulin means weight loss is much easier to achieve for those that need to lose, and that weight loss will be largely fat (a higher protein diet will tend to prevent lean muscle loss).

The overnight "syndrome" can be caused by two separate scenarios - the so called "Dawn Phenomenon" and the Somogyi Effect.

The dawn phenomenon is thought to be an evolutionary adaptation that prepares us for action in the morning by releasing various hormones in the very early hours of the morning which stimulate the body to release glucose from glycogen stores (glycogenolysis) or to make glucose, largely from circulating amino acids in the blood plasma (gluconeogenis). The more insulin resistant you are the more pronounced this phenomenon is likely to be - some people find not eating at all after dinner helps, others find that a small protein/fat snack such as a spoonful of peanut butter just before bed alleviates the problem. Either way, eating breakfast should get you back to 'normal' (otherwise the bs elevation will continue for longer).

The Somogyi Effect has a similar result, but it is only experienced by insulin dependant diabetics or reactive hypoglycemics whose overnight blood sugar drops too low - the body may respond to this with what diabetics call a "liver dump" - again glucose is either released or made, but this 'dump' can reflect an overreaction to the overnight low, resulting in high morning blood sugar readings. The solutions are similar, but in the case of IDDM, closer monitoring of insulin dosage is needed.

Hope that helps.

[Dennis]

Malcolm,
I finally have an informed person. I'm tracking with you on your answer and thanks so much for it. Here's a bit more. I'm occasinally taking four to eight ounces of red wine with supper or before bed and I'm finding a lower BS reading in the morning. Not quite what I need at this point but with the info that is starting to come in I think I can get it. I feel like I'm in a lab doing process of elimination. :o Was that your path as well? Also, is sleep interruption at around 3:00am possibly characteristic of diabetes?
At times I've had a protein drink at bed time plus wine with supper ( 4 oz. ) and I've had waking BS in the 140's.
Anyway, I'm getting there. Thanks much for your reply and appreciate any further info you dont mind passing on to me.
One more thing. I've found a Dr. Bruce Adams that has many cases of healing to his credit in this area of diabetes as well as associated cardio issues that usually go along with diabetes. He uses a nutritional supplement protocol from a company named Standard Process. My experience has been very positive with these supplements. They're not the usual fractionated supplements that have flooded the market.
I'll pass along any positive info in an effort to be as helpful and contributing as I can as I have received from some of you on this web site. Thanks again.

[mcsblues]

Dennis it's a pleasure, but it would help if you could tell us a bit about yourself. I take it you are a type 2 diabetic? - when were you diagnosed? are you on any medication/insulin? Are you following the Eades dietary plan (and if so for how long? and at what level?) Are you overweight and if so how much weight do you need to lose?

I am not a doctor, and even if I was I wouldn't offer medical advice on the net, but I have read quite a bit in the last three years and there are also plenty of others here who will no doubt help you out.

One site/book you should read if you haven't already is Dr Bernstein

http://www.diabetes-normalsugars.com/

- and like may others here I highly recommend the Eades followup book to PP - Protein Power life Plan (PPLP) which has a great deal more detail than PP.

Quite a few supplements tend to enhance glucose response/insulin sensitivity - chromium, alpha lipoic acid, gymnema sylvestre, magnesium, vitamin D3 and apple cider vinegar spring to mind - I'm sure there are others. I'd be interested in what you are taking.

Some studies suggest that alcohol, particularly wine reduces the insulin/blood sugar response to a meal - I haven't really tested this myself (well I have extensively tested wine ... but not the bs afterwards!!:p) - but I must admit I choose to believe all the good reports about red wine!:)

One other thing I forgot to mention in respect of improved overnight bs control is doing some exercise in the evenings before bed. Something else for you to experiment with! It may also help you sleep through the night.

[Dennis]

Malcolm here's my story,
3 yrs. ago I had a heart attack and it was then that I found out I have diabetes. It was a disappointing shocker to me. As a result at that time the Dr. put in a stent for blockage as I had a blocked artery. I thought that was that. I hate having ownership of that word diabetes so I set out to find out a remedy. Through exercise and supplementation I did well. I've always been one for medium jogging and weightlifting. Pretty much for the past 40 yrs. Not thinking all that much about nutrition. I think just taking it for granted.

Two months ago I had another oncoming heart attack and quickly got myself to the hospital before any further damage could be done to my heart. To look at me today you wouldnt know it. I feel fine but know that diabetes is more of a silent killer than not. There were more blockages that actually existed from my original episode heart attack but I guess weren't as pronounced at that time. After reading PP I now see why and am elated to understand so much more.

I am a staunch advocate in finding nutritional answers as I've grown increasingly upset with what I feel is uninformed or faulty info from the medical industry. MD's and such.
However, recently I reluctantly acquised to a endocrinologist who prescribed 500 mg. of Metformin which is Glucophage. I'm in the experimental stage of this meaning I want to tie down just exactly what works and how much and when. I dont want to be a slave to the prarmaceutical industry. That is a distinct passion of mine. So for now its Metformin and the Standard Process protocol from Dr. Bruce Adams in California, USA.

Due to my competitive bodybuilding days I would be considered "overweight" by the different scales out there. I'm 6'2" at 228. ( Down from 235 prev. to my more recent heart attack.) I think I want to be around 215 if that's possible.

I'm familiar with all the supplements you mentioned and I thank you for that. Also I've visited Dr. Bernsteins site and will be following up on that as well as getting PPLP.

Malcolm, can you shed a bit more light concerning breakfast?? I usually eat around 9:00am but am up earlier around 6:00 am for work. I dont get hungry till around 9:00. Breakfast is normally, at least at this point, 2 or 3 eggs with a piece of fruit. eating 1 yolk only. Along with coffee.

Finally, thanks again for your time. On the one hand I dont want to be a burden but on the other I need all the help I can get from anyone who has been at this longer than I have and is willing to share their info.:)
Thanks.

[Gaelen]

Dennis, the combination of heart problems and Type 2 diabetes is often deadly, and whether you hate owning the diabetic diagnosis or not, if you DON'T own it, it will own you. Your success with exercise and supplementation is commendable, but diet can't be disregarded when blood sugar control isn't yet established.

Diabetes is seldom a 'silent killer' -- that honor is reserved for high blood pressure, because many people are entirely unaware of HBP until they're hit with cardiac issues or stroke. Diabetes, on the other hand, usually presents with all kinds of symptoms; in fact, it's usually screaming health issues. The fact that many people ignore those symptoms or think they can get around them without paying attention to nutrition doesn't render the illness's screaming silent. ;)

Your initial question about whether protein has a direct effect on raising protein levels in the blood, which you then clarified to asking whether protein has a direct effect in lowering insulin/blood sugar levels, still leaves too many variables unquantified to give you a concise answer. As Malcolm noted, the more completely you describe your situation the more targeted replies to your question can be. For instance, what is your current diet and bloodwork like? What is a typical daily menu, and how does that relate to the same day's exercise. What supplements do you take, and how regularly? What meds are you on for the cardiac problems, if any? The body is a complicated system and everything knits together--changes in one area whether meds, food, exercise or sleep patterns can throw something else completely out of whack or bring another area nicely into line, but you have to give people a complete profile or the isolated questions don't make a whole lot of sense. Your initial question sounds like you might be concerned about excess protein in your bloodwork; the rephrase sounds like you're looking for protein to lower insulin/blood glucose levels. Those are two entirely different conditions. ;) On another front, this question:
Also, is sleep interruption at around 3:00am possibly characteristic of diabetes? At times I've had a protein drink at bed time plus wine with supper ( 4 oz. ) and I've had waking BS in the 140's.
could support several possible diagnoses, including the 'dawn effect' on blood sugar, and a possible need to investigate prostate/bladder issues (based on your age), as well as a suggestion to just cut down on the liquids you consume within 3-4 hours of bedtime.

You'll find many informed people here, Dennis, although most of us rarely offer a suggestion without asking additional questions about the situation. If you're looking for medical advice about your specific situation, you really need to consult your personal doctor or medical provider face-to-face. I repeat, since you have continuing cardiac issues that may be due to the damage/repair from the first heart attack, and you have a diabetes diagnosis with fasting blood sugars that still don't appear to be under control, including medical professionals in the advice-giving phase of your treatment is vital.

[Dennis]

Gaelen,
Thanks for your reply. I've spelled out much more in my more recent post to Malcolm and yes I've learned the hard way that I do have to own it. I appreciate all your and Malcolms help. Finally I've found some people who know this stuff.
Thanks again
Dennis

[mcsblues]

Yes. as Gaelen says we still need more information :)

Specifically in terms of your blood work - what is your A1C? What is the range of your FBGs (and what time do you take those readings - if your FBG is high at 6 am, it would be a good idea to eat something, even if it is not a complete breakfast then) as well as readings later in the day, response to meals etc.(how has your Metformin changed these)

A little more info on your diet would help too (give us some complete menus) - what sort of carb levels per meal are you shooting for?

I note you are cutting back on cholesterol intake (egg yolks) - I guess this was on 'medical' advice?

[Dennis]

Malcolm,

My last blood work ( 2 mos. ago ) was A1C- 6.7, FBG- 120, Chol. 210 ( forgot LDL & HDL )

Previous to Metformin - upon wakeup - 200 +-
After Metformin and diet control upon wakeup 130 - 150 ( still experimenting with this with a late night protein drink and or 4oz. of red wine per the PP book and overall diet )

Readings in AM are generally 150's to 160's. Strangely, after 12:00pm they positively begin to fall to the 90's -120's and have little rise untill 12:00 am comes around. Then up it goes to 200 without any management. This is where management has lowered it to 130 to 150. This is where I think the syndrome thing is kicking in.

Eat something if FBG is high in the AM ???? Ok but can you explain that one?

Daily intake is generally 3 eggs, apple or peach which are low glycemic index, tuna sandwich, protein drink (2)

Supper ranges from wheat pasta. (low glycemic) ( once or twice a week, strangely, somtimes AM BS reading after wheat pasta is low ), steak, mostly chicken, whole grain rice (minimal), fibrous vegetables, variations of this but not as a rule.

Yeah, the "medical" advice of cholesterol. I wonder if I should eat the whole egg? :D :lol: By the way, as I understand eggs, its the most bioavailable food besides mothers milk that a human can ingest. A "perfect" food.

Again, thanks for enduring with me.
Dennis.

[mcsblues]

OK, I'm going to suggest something to you that you also might have gleaned from PP ... forget about the GI!! (at least for the time being).

What you need to concentrate on is the total amount of carbohydrate in your diet, because your body will convert all of that (apart from the fibre) into glucose sooner or later - and in order to get your A1C back into the 5s and your fasting and daily readings back into check, it makes sense to cut back on glucose producing foods ... right?

Soooo - (again for the time being) - cut out the bread, pasta, rice and high carb vegetables (potato, corn, peas and beans) and (at least) high carb fruit as well. We also need to know what is in your protein drink - do you have the details of what is in each serve? Give us a detailed list of what supplemets you are taking (I'm not familiar with the protocol you mentioned).

Concentrate on meat, fish, eggs, cheese, green leafy vegetables and other low carb bargains - there is a good list in PP. I would suggest you follow the intervention diet in PP by the letter keeping your daily carbs to 30 or less and try to spread them evenly through the 3 meals (or 3 meals plus snacks).

Sounds hard? it isn't really, and it gets easier - particularly if you get yourself organised - a little planning goes a long way.

Keep a close eye on you BG readings - a diary is a good idea - because one thing you do need to guard against with your medication is your BG dipping too low (less than 80). Hopefully your doctor will have to adjust the dosage (lower) fairly soon. It would be a good idea to discuss this with him/her in any event, particularly so if you are on any other medication (especially blood pressure meds).

Yes I wouldn't worry about egg yolks - even if dietary cholesterol had an impact on serum cholesterol (which it doesn't) - your cholesterol is not high anyway.

The idea behind eating breakfast is that the (hopefully small) BG rise from food will shut down the release of glucose from your liver and muscles (glycogen) that has cause the overnight surge.

If all this seems a bit overwhelming you need to think along the lines Gaelen outlined - if you don't take responsibility and 'ownership' of your condition - it will own you and the health consequences of doing so should not be ignored. If I was in your shoes I would buy Bernstein's book as well as PPLP.

[Dennis]

Ok will do. I already bought PPLP yesterday and I'll get Bernsteins book shortly and hone in on the diet aspect much more.

Supplements- Standard Process brand Phytonutrients which are food grade glandulars. Raw heart to bolster the heart, B complex, chromium GTF, minerals, COQ10 120mg, time released Niacin, Folic acid B12, one plant based enzyme at supper. Thats it.

I've got this nagging thought that I may not be taking enough of something given the fact that the liver is releasing that much sugar in the morning. Adding to your suggestion to eat something when I wake up.

Doc's statement was that the liver wasnt "seeing" the insulin. Hence the metformin. I'll be getting back to him on that one.
Thanks much again.
Dennis

Hey Malcolm are you my age?? What's your story that brought you here to this stuff??

I like your and Gaelin's info. Hey Gaelin, you sound tuff though:lol: . But it sounds like you guys arent the new kids on the block. Which is exactly what I've been searching for.

[Gaelen]

I've got this nagging thought that I may not be taking enough of something given the fact that the liver is releasing that much sugar in the morning.

Dennis, your liver is producing too much sugar because you are EATING too much sugar. As Malcolm suggests, lose the grains, rice and pasta. Eat your sandwiches on romaine lettuce leaves or a single slice of bread that has no more than 5gECC per slice. Make sure that protein drink has no more than 10g ECC per serving of your per-meal protein recommendation...in other words, if you have a protein minimum of 105g per day (33g per meal for three meals), then make sure your shake provides BOTH 33g of protein and no more than 10g ECC per serving (lower ECC would be better...)

Take your daily carb intake down to 30g ECC, divided into no more than 7-10g ECC per meal (if you have any left, you can have them as a small snack with at least half the amount of protein recommended per meal for your snack) or PPLP's Phase I intervention, which is 40g ECC per day but still suggests that each meal (or each time you eat) be limited to no more than 10g ECC. For fruits, stick to melons or berries, or if you prefer apples and stone fruits like peaches, look up how much you can have within the 7-10g ECC per meal guidelines. Unless the apples are VERY small, you'll probably only be able to have a third or a half of an apple. Peaches that are about 3" in diameter (smaller than a tennis ball) just about fit within single meal intake guidelines. The 7-10g ECC limit per meal is to help you get your blood sugar and insulin resistance under control.

Forget the glycemic index, glycemic load, and complex vs. simple carbs at this point...you need to be eating fewer carbs if you hope to get your blood sugar levels under control.

Hey Gaelin, you sound tuff though:lol: . But it sounds like you guys arent the new kids on the block. Which is exactly what I've been searching for.

Moi? I'm a pussycat. ;) I only sharpen my claws when absolutely necessary, though... ;)

Many people here have been on one form or another of this board, and following Protein Power, for several years (four years in my case, more than that in others').

[mcsblues]

Ok will do. I already bought PPLP yesterday and I'll get Bernsteins book shortly and hone in on the diet aspect much more.
Great - if you think we are tough, Bernstein is tougher! - but if anyone is the guru of dietary control of diabetes he is - and I doubt there are any others that have been 'walking the walk' longer than he has.

One thing I do recommend is you get an accurate digital scale initially weigh /measure and record everything to keep track of your carb/protein/fat intake using one of the online nutrition databases (eg http://www.nutritiondata.com/) That way you can have journal which will relate specific food intake with the blood sugar outcome (also journaled).

Supplements- Standard Process brand Phytonutrients which are food grade glandulars. Raw heart to bolster the heart, B complex, chromium GTF, minerals, COQ10 120mg, time released Niacin, Folic acid B12, one plant based enzyme at supper. Thats it.
No other medication apart from the Metformin? I'm surprised - I have a diabetic friend who had a stent put in a while ago and he is on so many pills small children use him as a rattle!!:D Seriously, if it were me I would use the whole arsenal - try the vinegar before meals, get hold of some gymnema sylvestre, r-alpha lipoic acid, chelated magnesium and cholecalciferol (vit D3) ... add cinnamon into your diet ... I would also (particularly, given your heart problems) be making sure that my diet concentrated on healthy saturated and monounsaturated fats with oily fish and/or omega 3 supplementation. As much as possible eliminate trans fats and minimise omega 6 consumption.


Doc's statement was that the liver wasnt "seeing" the insulin. Hence the metformin. I'll be getting back to him on that one. This is exactly what insulin resistance means (and type 2 diabetes is just an extreme form of IR). It is not that your body isn't producing enough insulin (quite the reverse) but that it is taking more and more insulin to bring your blood sugar back into line, and the prolonged elevation of both are causing serious problems. Metformin will help, but if you reduce the amount of glucose producing foods in your diet, you can help yourself a great deal more.


My story is that a family history of diabetes and increasing difficulty keeping my weight under control led me to search for a better way of dealing with my weight (which I was told was a diabetes risk factor). What I found after a fair bit of research, was that abandoning the mainstream low fat/high carb/starvation approach to weight control and instead limiting carbs with emphasis on protein intake and quality fats solved both concerns, and dramatically improved my health generally. I have been living this way and continuing to read and research about this way of life (it's addictive) for nearly 3 years now.

[LisaS]

The idea behind eating breakfast is that the (hopefully small) BG rise from food will shut down the release of glucose from your liver and muscles (glycogen) that has cause the overnight surge.
just fyi - muscle conversion of glycogen back to glucose is a localized action - AFAIK muscle does not release glucose to the bloodstream.

[LisaS]

Dennis -
How is your daily exercise? You know that this is one of the best tools for increasing insulin sensitivity, right?

[Dennis]

Gaelen, Malcolm, Lisa,

Hey, thought I'd share some info that I'm getting unglued about. (in a good way)
In PPLF pg. 53 at the bottom, I finally had a MD confirm my syndrome. Hallelujia!!! That's exactly what's going on.

Also, my BS was 102 two hrs. after supper of chicken parmigian last night and 130 upon waking which quickly started to drop to the 120's after a few minutes of mulling around the kitchen this AM.

I've now had a taste of victory so I think I'll go in for the kill. Mainly protein. WOW!!

There's so much I could scream about right now ( in a good way )but I'll have to wait.

Lisa, what is AFAIK and the term localized action mean??

Thanks much you guys. See....your effort to help me is paying off!!!!
Hey one more thing, do guys know how to work the avatar?? I cant see the method to transfer one of the pictures to my posts??

[Dennis]

Malcolm,
Ive read the red wine vinegar is fine. Have you read any different??

I have Alpha Lipoic acid but havent heard of the R type. Info? Also, what is this cholecalciferol vit D3??
I was a bit disappointed with Gymnema Silvestre as it didnt really effect things. Any advice in brand names that you've found to actually be what was stated on the bottle?? Same question regarding Magnesium that you mentioned??

I have a handful of meds that I've let go off that repress the heart function in an effort to save the heart. However the sluggishness of the heart with these can lead to edema which leads to an enlarged heart.

I told the doctor these are like death to me and he pulled me off one called cozzar or something like that. Another is Topril which isnt to bad but still is sluggish. Another is the infamous Zocor. Yuck. I'd rather a low insulin diet to take care of chol. and inflammation. And finally the additional infamous Plavix. Another yuck.

Anyway...........oh one more thing. How do you do that thing with the enclosure of the quote??

I'm definitely on my way thanks to all you guys help.

[Gaelen]

I told the doctor these are like death to me and he pulled me off one called cozzar or something like that. Another is Topril which isnt to bad but still is sluggish. Another is the infamous Zocor. Yuck. I'd rather a low insulin diet to take care of chol. and inflammation. And finally the additional infamous Plavix. Another yuck. Anyway...........oh one more thing. How do you do that thing with the enclosure of the quote??

Dennis, simple things first:
For an avatar, go to the User Control Panel (the User CP link in the blue bar at the top of the page) and either choose one from the standard set, or use the choice where you link/upload a file on your own PC.
To quote part of someone else's post, the simplest way is to hit the blue QUOTE button in the bottom right of the post you want to quote. It will open up a reply window with their post already pasted inside. Then you can just highlight and delete out the parts of their post you don't really need...
Another method is to highlight and copy just the text you want to quote and the open a reply window, click on the little 'quote' ballon icon near the far right of that window, and paste what you copied between the quote tags which look like with capital letters (I typed them in lower case so that you could see them...)

Now for the less simple things...Toprol is primarily used to regulate blood pressure, and Plavix has a lot of applications in patients who've already had cardiac events, especially if they had vascular damage that required bypass or a stent. You may not like them, but you may need them for a good long time. I don't particularly like Keppra, an anti-seizure med of which I take a loading dose since I have a history of intracerebral hemorrhage, but it does help control some of the non-reversible neurological changes that resulted. Controlling carbs, which will help control insulin, is the way most of us would rather deal with cholesterol and inflammation, but sometimes controlling carbs alone isn't enough. You may need some level of meds, and that's not a failure--it's just the way life is.

And BTW, what Lisa said about exercise is completely correct. The reason your a.m. blood glucose goes down was that you moved around for a few minutes. The thing is what it is. ;)