For the guy several comments above me:

I watch travel shows alot. Many Asian nations are featured. Asians eat a lot of organ meats, bugs, insects,(Thailnad) seafood like Octopus(China) etc. and fish in Japan. And in the case of Vietnam- snake ,snake, snake, snake and more snake- even the blood. There are a lot of American myths about the Asian diet that are made up by low fat advocates.

They definitely consume a lot of animal / and or insect based protein too, very similar to a true paleo diet- like what Bear Grylles or Les Stroud eat on their shows.

-Excerpt from…

Cleave, T.L. and G.D. Campbell. Diabetes, Coronary Thrombosis, and the Saccharine
Disease. John Wright & Sons LTD.: Bristol, UK, 1969.

This is in reference to lack of obesity amongst rural Zulu’s on a diet of 90% carbohydrates.

And “uh” yes, I’ve read all of Cleave’s work, who was a proponent of a diet high in natural, unrefined carbohydrates for the prevention of every known modern illness.

I’ve also read your book, and literally hundreds of others – enough to know that “protein’s power” is the remarkable ability to slow down the human metabolism when eaten in excess, making it easier to gain weight on smaller amounts of calories than a diet rich in fat.

This is why Atkins stated on page 313 of Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution that his diet “tends to shut down the thyroid,” which is the exact pitfall of a low-carbohydrate diet that contains more than 20% of calories from protein – a common mistake in the fat-phobic world.

Why not eat in a manner that improves the metabolism instead of catering to its insufficiencies?

Ah, a different book than the one I have. Sorry. But, irrespective of whether it actually says what you claim or not, I don’t believe it. Had he written that 90 percent of the foods eaten by the Zulu were of plant origin, I could maybe buy it, but not the idea that 90 percent are carbohydrate. That’s not a sustainable diet.

If you think that protein slows down metabolism, I would suggest a serious reading of the medical literature, not a cherry picking of those few papers that confirm your bias.

“You can “prove” anything with statistics.” That was a comment from my father when I was about twelve. He then added “Just dont believe it.”

There are even US university departments that (jokingly?) suggest that they will “prove”
anything you want (if you have enough money).

I have no conclusive research to say they don’t but so far all my observations failed to show that they do.

Most of my East-asian friends cook regularly and they do NOT consume a lot of rice, it’s a side dish to accompany all the sauces, soups and meat/fish dishes they prepare.

This is the same story as Italians and pasta, Italians use pasta as a side dish and in small amounts. The french and their pastry, tiny portions after a meal.

I spent a week in Japan eating with locals and yes rice and noodles are on the menu but so are heavy sauces, fish and meat. And no, these are not fancy restaurants, these are fill to the brim with locals, 5€-a-meal places.

Thailand is the same story, it was 2 weeks of mostly meat and fish stews next to rice, the rice portion was small. And again this was local non-touristy restaurants and at the home of a Thai family.

I think what happens is when Asians go to the west, money is not exactly flowing, so they focus more on the cheaper part of the meal: rice and noodles.

For one, it is overly simplistic. To say that carbs cause a release of insulin, and that insulin causes one to store fat and become resistant to insulin over time is completely wrong. Examples of people who eat massive quantities of carbohydrates without running into obesity, type II diabetes, and early death from related complications is endless. Look no further than Tabues’ beloved Saccarine Disease by T.L. Cleave for evidence of that, where Cleave noted a lack of obesity, type II diabetes, and health problems amongst rural Zulus eating a diet consisting of 90% of calories as carbohydrates.

Or Kitavans…

Or the Japanese…

For an even better example, go straight to Taubes’ reliance on the Pima Indians to prove the ‘carbs make you fat’ theory. Pima Indians living in Mexico off of traditional carbohydrate staples – corn and potatoes (high GI BTW), have no such health problems like their Northerly Pepsi-slugging American Pima brethren.

Clearly, the carbohydrate does not, in and of itself, cause obesity. If we found it to cause obesity in the United States for example, that still wouldn’t answer why carbohydrate-based diets around the world in Asia and in numerous primitive rural cultures don’t cause obesity there.

If a person is deemed “carbohydrate sensitive” or has a metabolic problem (insulin resistance) that is apparently exacerbated by carbohydrate ingestion, then avoiding them is certainly one route to take. However, that still doesn’t ‘cure’ the problem, it just avoids it, like someone with allergies wearing a gas mask for life, or someone with a broken leg lying in bed for the rest of their lives. I think there is a much greater goal that can be achieved in the world of health, and that is overcoming insulin resistance and carbohydrate intolerance – instead of avoidance. That would be healing. True healing, instead of admonishing oneself to poor health and carb abstinence forever and ever, amen.

Dr. Bray is at least acknowledging that carbohydrate consumption does not cause insulin resistance, but that there are other underlying conditions that cause it. Hypercortisolemia is certainly one of them, which also causes leptin resistance and many other health problems. A low metabolism is yet another.

All in all, both Taubes and Bray, even though both have made some key contributions, are blind. Carbohydrate consumption, meat consumption, fat/natural sugar consumption in combination, fat consumption – you name it – they all predate the obesity/hyperinsulinemia epidemic.

Uh, did you actually read the Cleave’s The Saccharine Disease? I have my copy in front of me, and I looked up every reference to the Zulu in the index. Nowhere does it say that the Zulu eat a diet that is 90 percent carbohydrate, unrefined or otherwise. Such a diet would be unsustainable. Even such anti-fat zealots as Ornish, McDougal and others don’t recommend a 90 percent carb diet.

Provide the papers, and I’ll put them up for all to see.