Comments on: The lipid hypothesis http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/ A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:47:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Diana http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-188775 Diana Mon, 10 Nov 2008 15:03:52 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-188775 Dr, Mike- Sorry, one more point. Why do you suppose they stopped the study early? Could it be because they would have been dying from something else if continued? Cancer perhaps? That would be my guess. Diana <em>Or diabetes. The group taking Crestor developed diabetes at greater rates than did the group taking placebo.</em> Dr, Mike-
Sorry, one more point. Why do you suppose they stopped the study early? Could it be because they would have been dying from something else if continued? Cancer perhaps? That would be my guess.

Diana

Or diabetes. The group taking Crestor developed diabetes at greater rates than did the group taking placebo.

]]> By: Diana http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-188774 Diana Mon, 10 Nov 2008 14:57:35 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-188774 Dr. Mike, I am also anxious to hear your thoughts on JUPITER. I was reading an article on the AP about the study. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iQZYnx7w8_yt8cNemDDU71Et41yQD94BFG980 I found it very interesting that the person who led the study is a co-inventor of the blood test that tests CRP levels... "One is high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, or CRP for short. It is a measure of inflammation, which can mean clogged arteries as well as less serious problems, such as an infection or injury. Doctors check CRP with a blood test that costs about $80 to have done. A co-inventor on a patent of the test, Dr. Paul Ridker of Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, led the new study. It involved 17,802 people with high CRP and low LDL cholesterol (below 130) in the U.S. and 25 other countries." A little Conflict of interest? When I heard this study on the National news last night, I could only cringe. Especially when they were talking about how many "new" patients could now be prescribed Crestor and/or other statins. Especially women. They are saying that now this proves there is a reason for women to take statins. Like they were telling women to stay away before this study!!! I had to mute the volume when my husband came in the room because he still believes in the cholesterol hypothesis. His total chol is 156, with LDL at 71, at 50 y/0, without statins (too low for my liking). He is insisting that I get my numbers at my physical in Jan. (1st physical in 15 years, except for gyno, I only see Doctors when sick or emergency). I am going for the exam to keep him happy. I am 39 y/o, eat low-carb (10%) protein 35%, fat 55% on average. I am curious to see my numbers, but afraid we will get into quite an argument if my numbers are "high", since I eat differently than him, (butter, steak, eggs, liver etc.), and I am overweight, but steadliy dropping since going low carb. Well, got a little off-subject here. Can't wait to hear your take on the study. Diana <em>My thoughts are up!</em> Dr. Mike,
I am also anxious to hear your thoughts on JUPITER. I was reading an article on the AP about the study.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iQZYnx7w8_yt8cNemDDU71Et41yQD94BFG980

I found it very interesting that the person who led the study is a co-inventor of the blood test that tests CRP levels…

“One is high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, or CRP for short. It is a measure of inflammation, which can mean clogged arteries as well as less serious problems, such as an infection or injury. Doctors check CRP with a blood test that costs about $80 to have done.

A co-inventor on a patent of the test, Dr. Paul Ridker of Harvard-affiliated Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, led the new study. It involved 17,802 people with high CRP and low LDL cholesterol (below 130) in the U.S. and 25 other countries.”

A little Conflict of interest?

When I heard this study on the National news last night, I could only cringe. Especially when they were talking about how many “new” patients could now be prescribed Crestor and/or other statins. Especially women. They are saying that now this proves there is a reason for women to take statins. Like they were telling women to stay away before this study!!!
I had to mute the volume when my husband came in the room because he still believes in the cholesterol hypothesis. His total chol is 156, with LDL at 71, at 50 y/0, without statins (too low for my liking). He is insisting that I get my numbers at my physical in Jan. (1st physical in 15 years, except for gyno, I only see Doctors when sick or emergency). I am going for the exam to keep him happy.
I am 39 y/o, eat low-carb (10%) protein 35%, fat 55% on average. I am curious to see my numbers, but afraid we will get into quite an argument if my numbers are “high”, since I eat differently than him, (butter, steak, eggs, liver etc.), and I am overweight, but steadliy dropping since going low carb.
Well, got a little off-subject here. Can’t wait to hear your take on the study.

Diana

My thoughts are up!

]]> By: Gerard Sorme http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-188739 Gerard Sorme Mon, 10 Nov 2008 04:33:30 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-188739 Anxious to hear your thoughts about JUPITER and the New Orleans PR offensive for statins. <em>I'll get my thoughts up just as soon as I have some. Cheers-- MRE</em> Anxious to hear your thoughts about JUPITER and the New Orleans PR offensive for statins.

I’ll get my thoughts up just as soon as I have some.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Joy http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-158560 Joy Sat, 02 Aug 2008 01:20:50 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-158560 I was taking Krill Oil for a week and had horrible nightmares every night. So I stopped it and they went away. So I thought because I took it at night that I would start taking it in the morning that that might work....well it didn't. I still had bad nightmares. I have read that Krill Oil breaks through the brain barrier so now I am wondering what exactly does that mean? This is very disturbing and causes me sleepless nights. I only took one Swanson's Krill Oil 500 mgs. I don't want to stop it because I need it to bring my HD cholesterol levels up and this seems the most natural way. What would you suggest? Thank you so much, Joy <em>The blood-brain barrier is the means that the brain has to keep substances in the blood that might be toxic to the brain from making it into the brain. Medicines that are designed to treat the brain are formulated in such a way as to be able to cross this barrier. Fatty substances, of which krill oil is one, make it across the barrier as well. Krill oil is a more potent form of omega-3 fats than fish oil, but both cross the barrier. The krill oil is just more potent. I suspect that the nightmares will subside with time. If not, or if you want to avoid them now, try switching to fish oil. Or reducing your dosage of krill oil (find softgels with a lower dose).</em> I was taking Krill Oil for a week and had horrible nightmares every night. So I stopped it and they went away. So I thought because I took it at night that I would start taking it in the morning that that might work….well it didn’t. I still had bad nightmares. I have read that Krill Oil breaks through the brain barrier so now I am wondering what exactly does that mean? This is very disturbing and causes me sleepless nights. I only took one Swanson’s Krill Oil 500 mgs. I don’t want to stop it because I need it to bring my HD cholesterol levels up and this seems the most natural way. What would you suggest?

Thank you so much,
Joy

The blood-brain barrier is the means that the brain has to keep substances in the blood that might be toxic to the brain from making it into the brain. Medicines that are designed to treat the brain are formulated in such a way as to be able to cross this barrier. Fatty substances, of which krill oil is one, make it across the barrier as well. Krill oil is a more potent form of omega-3 fats than fish oil, but both cross the barrier. The krill oil is just more potent. I suspect that the nightmares will subside with time. If not, or if you want to avoid them now, try switching to fish oil. Or reducing your dosage of krill oil (find softgels with a lower dose).

]]> By: Fred Potter http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-132426 Fred Potter Mon, 26 May 2008 04:19:39 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-132426 Thanks so is it possible that those who have statin-induced myopathy, would, if they had an MRI scan, find they had stenosis? In my case lumbar spinal stenosis. I suffer loss of balance. My GP says it's due to stenosis, but the specialist says it's probably diabetes. I don't agree with the specialist Fred <em>Hey Fred-- I don't think statin-induced myopathy has anything to do with lumbar spinal stenosis. Usually lumbar spinal stenosis, if not congenital, is secondary to arthritis or some other inflammatory process. Hope you get it all sorted out. Cheers-- MRE</em> Thanks so is it possible that those who have statin-induced myopathy, would, if they had an MRI scan, find they had stenosis? In my case lumbar spinal stenosis. I suffer loss of balance. My GP says it’s due to stenosis, but the specialist says it’s probably diabetes. I don’t agree with the specialist
Fred

Hey Fred–

I don’t think statin-induced myopathy has anything to do with lumbar spinal stenosis. Usually lumbar spinal stenosis, if not congenital, is secondary to arthritis or some other inflammatory process. Hope you get it all sorted out.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Fred Potter http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-124054 Fred Potter Thu, 24 Apr 2008 05:03:25 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-124054 Dear MRE 7 months on and CoQ10 didn't help my myopathy. I'm worse than ever. I know this because I had an MRI scan. The results were in fluent Martian, each phrase starting with the word "severe". Stenosis for example. So I have allowed myself to be misled by the anti-statin lobby and the well-meaning "health professionals" in the health store Fred <em>Hi Fred-- Who said your myopathy was from statin drugs? One of the most common side effects from statin drugs is myopathy, but it's not the only cause of myopathy. I don't know where you have stenosis, but I don't know (and you don't know) if it's from your stopping a statin drug or not. The medical literature is pretty clear on the fact that the only group of people shown to receive any all-cause-mortality reduction from statin drugs is men under the age of 65 who have had a diagnosis of heart disease. That's not high cholesterol - high cholesterol isn't a disease; it's a lab finding. Only those men who have had a heart attack or otherwise been diagnosed as suffering from heart disease were helped by statins. For the rest there was no benefit. I didn't make this up - this is what the medical literature shows.</em> Dear MRE 7 months on and CoQ10 didn’t help my myopathy. I’m worse than ever. I know this because I had an MRI scan. The results were in fluent Martian, each phrase starting with the word “severe”. Stenosis for example. So I have allowed myself to be misled by the anti-statin lobby and the well-meaning “health professionals” in the health store
Fred

Hi Fred–

Who said your myopathy was from statin drugs? One of the most common side effects from statin drugs is myopathy, but it’s not the only cause of myopathy.

I don’t know where you have stenosis, but I don’t know (and you don’t know) if it’s from your stopping a statin drug or not. The medical literature is pretty clear on the fact that the only group of people shown to receive any all-cause-mortality reduction from statin drugs is men under the age of 65 who have had a diagnosis of heart disease. That’s not high cholesterol - high cholesterol isn’t a disease; it’s a lab finding. Only those men who have had a heart attack or otherwise been diagnosed as suffering from heart disease were helped by statins. For the rest there was no benefit. I didn’t make this up - this is what the medical literature shows.

]]> By: Jay Goodof http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-119628 Jay Goodof Thu, 10 Apr 2008 13:59:58 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-119628 Am 83...male... after taking zocor for 8 years I suddenly have rather severe leg and thigh and buttock muscles.. also upper arms, both, near shoulders.. am quitting zocor cold..TODAY.. how long will it take to see if muscle problems due to zocor actually are fact... or is it something else? Dovecut <em>You need to talk to your doctor about this and at least get a lab test to see what's going on to make sure the pain you're describing is due to the Zocor.</em> Am 83…male… after taking zocor for 8 years I suddenly have rather severe leg and thigh and buttock muscles.. also upper arms, both, near shoulders.. am quitting zocor cold..TODAY.. how long will it take to see if muscle problems due to zocor actually are fact… or is it something else?

Dovecut

You need to talk to your doctor about this and at least get a lab test to see what’s going on to make sure the pain you’re describing is due to the Zocor.

]]> By: Vic http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-111918 Vic Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:45:33 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-111918 The articles & comments on the lipid hypothesis have been very interesting but I still find it hard to come to a conclusion about it. I had a MI in 2002 after about 6 weeks of angina symptoms. I had always been reasonably fit, a non smoker & exercised, my total cholesterol was 'normal' as was my weight for height. I had also for many years followed a low fat diet only eating saturated fat on rare occasions. No family history of heart trouble. I had however been taking a beta-blocker for about 5 years as a heart protector & to counter what was diagnosed as extra systoles (which I found uncomfortable but was assured were not a problem in themselves) After the MI I had triple CABG as my arteries were so blocked. Since the operation I have felt pretty good & keep fit & all my readings cholesterol etc are good though I take statins which I did not previously. So I have a few questions If the lipid hypothesis is not a valid one what caused the blockages? Does the emphasis on the lipid hypothesis mean that other causes of cardio vascular disease are not given due attention? Is it as has been suggested purely a matter of age - I was 65 when I had the MI? <em>This is way too complex a question to be addressed in the comments section. Use the search function and go back and look at some of the old posts on the lipid hypothesis and heart disease and statins, and I think you'll get a pretty good picture of my thoughts. If the lipid hypothesis were valid, then you shouldn't have had an MI. You wrote that your cholesterol was normal, you followed a low-fat diet and you avoided saturated fat. You are the poster child for what to do to avoid a heart attack (assuming the lipid hypothesis is valid), yet you had one. My bet is that it is an inflammatory problem, and inflammation can be encouraged by a low-fat, high-carb diet.</em> The articles & comments on the lipid hypothesis have been very interesting but I still find it hard to come to a conclusion about it. I had a MI in 2002 after about 6 weeks of angina symptoms. I had always been reasonably fit, a non smoker & exercised, my total cholesterol was ‘normal’ as was my weight for height. I had also for many years followed a low fat diet only eating saturated fat on rare occasions. No family history of heart trouble.
I had however been taking a beta-blocker for about 5 years as a heart protector & to counter what was diagnosed as extra systoles (which I found uncomfortable but was assured were not a problem in themselves)
After the MI I had triple CABG as my arteries were so blocked. Since the operation I have felt pretty good & keep fit & all my readings cholesterol etc are good though I take statins which I did not previously.
So I have a few questions
If the lipid hypothesis is not a valid one what caused the blockages?
Does the emphasis on the lipid hypothesis mean that other causes of cardio vascular disease are not given due attention?
Is it as has been suggested purely a matter of age - I was 65 when I had the MI?

This is way too complex a question to be addressed in the comments section. Use the search function and go back and look at some of the old posts on the lipid hypothesis and heart disease and statins, and I think you’ll get a pretty good picture of my thoughts.

If the lipid hypothesis were valid, then you shouldn’t have had an MI. You wrote that your cholesterol was normal, you followed a low-fat diet and you avoided saturated fat. You are the poster child for what to do to avoid a heart attack (assuming the lipid hypothesis is valid), yet you had one. My bet is that it is an inflammatory problem, and inflammation can be encouraged by a low-fat, high-carb diet.

]]> By: Fred Potter http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-51682 Fred Potter Mon, 17 Sep 2007 20:52:19 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-51682 Thanks MRE I take the oil capsules and I take them with my (fatty) evening meal. Do you know if it can take a long time before recovery? Is it possible I'll never recover? I have slight arthritis in my hip and back and therefore some sciatica. But by leg pain is mostly in the buttocks, the front of the thighs and the calfs. Also deltoids and arms. Is extreme fatigue also a feature? I complained of it to my Dr about 3-4 years ago but she ignored my complaints. the kind of sudden fatigue where I wasn't sure I'd reach the other side of the road. The next thing is, if I have to give up work, where do I start to look for compensation? I understand the UK are mounting some big petition. Meanwhile my Dr is strongly urging me to take up a statin again. I'm in New Zealand by the way All the best and thanks Fred <em>Hi Fred-- It can sometimes take years for a complete recovery, assuming, of course, that your myalgias are caused by the statin drugs you took. If I were you I would crank up my CoQ10 to at least 300 mg per day. And, BTW, make sure yours doesn't come from China. Cheers-- MRE</em> Thanks MRE I take the oil capsules and I take them with my (fatty) evening meal. Do you know if it can take a long time before recovery? Is it possible I’ll never recover? I have slight arthritis in my hip and back and therefore some sciatica. But by leg pain is mostly in the buttocks, the front of the thighs and the calfs. Also deltoids and arms. Is extreme fatigue also a feature? I complained of it to my Dr about 3-4 years ago but she ignored my complaints. the kind of sudden fatigue where I wasn’t sure I’d reach the other side of the road. The next thing is, if I have to give up work, where do I start to look for compensation? I understand the UK are mounting some big petition. Meanwhile my Dr is strongly urging me to take up a statin again. I’m in New Zealand by the way
All the best and thanks
Fred

Hi Fred–

It can sometimes take years for a complete recovery, assuming, of course, that your myalgias are caused by the statin drugs you took. If I were you I would crank up my CoQ10 to at least 300 mg per day. And, BTW, make sure yours doesn’t come from China.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Fred Potter http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/the-lipid-hypothesis/#comment-51584 Fred Potter Mon, 17 Sep 2007 05:17:49 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=62#comment-51584 Dr Firstly thank you for your free expert advice. I'm still getting muscle weakness and pain after quitting simvastatin for about 4 months and supplementing with CoQ10. The pain seems strongly linked to extreme fatigue and sleepiness and even depression. Walking can be very difficult, although some days I temporally recover. At 95Kg am I taking enough Q10? I was taking 200mg in the evening. Perhaps 200 night and morning would be better. I've heard it could be 2 years before recovery. I'm 61 so don't produce much Q10 of my own. Many thanks for your advice Fred <em>Hi Fred-- I would certainly take at least 300 mg per day of CoQ10. And you've got to make sure that you're taking it in the correct form. CoQ10 is lipid soluble so it must be taken with fat to be absorbed. If you take the kind that comes in a capsule filled with oil - the expensive kind - you're okay taking it alone. If you take the less expensive kind, you've got to take it with a fatty meal or you won't benefit from it much at all. There is another kind, which dissolves in your mouth, and which is also expensive. I don't know if that is available where you live or not. At any rate, before you change the amount, make sure you're actually absorbing the stuff. If you're taking the inexpensive kind on an empty stomach, then you're actually getting very little. Best-- MRE </em> Dr Firstly thank you for your free expert advice. I’m still getting muscle weakness and pain after quitting simvastatin for about 4 months and supplementing with CoQ10. The pain seems strongly linked to extreme fatigue and sleepiness and even depression. Walking can be very difficult, although some days I temporally recover. At 95Kg am I taking enough Q10? I was taking 200mg in the evening. Perhaps 200 night and morning would be better. I’ve heard it could be 2 years before recovery. I’m 61 so don’t produce much Q10 of my own. Many thanks for your advice
Fred

Hi Fred–

I would certainly take at least 300 mg per day of CoQ10. And you’ve got to make sure that you’re taking it in the correct form. CoQ10 is lipid soluble so it must be taken with fat to be absorbed. If you take the kind that comes in a capsule filled with oil - the expensive kind - you’re okay taking it alone. If you take the less expensive kind, you’ve got to take it with a fatty meal or you won’t benefit from it much at all. There is another kind, which dissolves in your mouth, and which is also expensive. I don’t know if that is available where you live or not. At any rate, before you change the amount, make sure you’re actually absorbing the stuff. If you’re taking the inexpensive kind on an empty stomach, then you’re actually getting very little.

Best–

MRE

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