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	<title>Comments on: More on E. coli O157:H7</title>
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	<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/</link>
	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
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		<title>By: Jamie Dolan</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-103185</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Dolan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 22:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-103185</guid>
		<description>Dr. Eades;
Have you had any further thoughts or written anything about bovine Colostrum since the time of this post?  I was unable to locate anything else you had written on the subject.
Jamie

&lt;em&gt;Haven&#039;t written anything more.  Still use it myself if I feel like I&#039;m coming down with something.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Eades;<br />
Have you had any further thoughts or written anything about bovine Colostrum since the time of this post?  I was unable to locate anything else you had written on the subject.<br />
Jamie</p>
<p><em>Haven&#8217;t written anything more.  Still use it myself if I feel like I&#8217;m coming down with something.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Gabriel E. Guzman, Ph.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-952</link>
		<dc:creator>Gabriel E. Guzman, Ph.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 16:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-952</guid>
		<description>Great article Mike!  Regarding milking wild paleo-animals, I&#039;m inclined to think that since humans are also able to lactate and that instinct has been always with us, Paleolithic man may not have had the need to milk any other animals.

I look forward for your blog entry on bovine colostrum and its uses.  From the immunological standpoint, I&#039;d be interested to know about the human response (or lack thereof) to foreign antibodies.  It&#039;s well known that the introduction of antibodies of different species, unless they are &#039;humanized&#039;, doesn&#039;t come without risk and problems.  That is a common problem with antidotes to snake venom, for example, which is sometimes produced in horses.  While the antiserum contains the necessary antibodies to neutralize the snake toxin, it also provides foreign proteins to which the body reacts.  The immune reaction against horse antibodies puts a lot of stress in the kidneys due to the excessive formation and even deposition of immune complexes that can also affect the skin and joint.  It&#039;s the basic concept behind type-III hypersensitivity.  Perhaps the difference is in the way bovine colostrum is administered.  Your coming discussion on that issue will be most informative.

On a related note about how cattle are fed, I just heard a commercial on the radio from a business in town.  In an attempt of making consumers aware of their &#039;good&#039; farming practices, they say (and proudly), &#039;our cattle are of the best quality... corn fed and free from antibiotics or hormones! Go figure!

Hi Gabe--

Thanks for the comment.  I hope the bovine colostrum blog will be worthwhile.

Best--

MRE
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Mike!  Regarding milking wild paleo-animals, I&#8217;m inclined to think that since humans are also able to lactate and that instinct has been always with us, Paleolithic man may not have had the need to milk any other animals.</p>
<p>I look forward for your blog entry on bovine colostrum and its uses.  From the immunological standpoint, I&#8217;d be interested to know about the human response (or lack thereof) to foreign antibodies.  It&#8217;s well known that the introduction of antibodies of different species, unless they are &#8216;humanized&#8217;, doesn&#8217;t come without risk and problems.  That is a common problem with antidotes to snake venom, for example, which is sometimes produced in horses.  While the antiserum contains the necessary antibodies to neutralize the snake toxin, it also provides foreign proteins to which the body reacts.  The immune reaction against horse antibodies puts a lot of stress in the kidneys due to the excessive formation and even deposition of immune complexes that can also affect the skin and joint.  It&#8217;s the basic concept behind type-III hypersensitivity.  Perhaps the difference is in the way bovine colostrum is administered.  Your coming discussion on that issue will be most informative.</p>
<p>On a related note about how cattle are fed, I just heard a commercial on the radio from a business in town.  In an attempt of making consumers aware of their &#8216;good&#8217; farming practices, they say (and proudly), &#8216;our cattle are of the best quality&#8230; corn fed and free from antibiotics or hormones! Go figure!</p>
<p>Hi Gabe&#8211;</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I hope the bovine colostrum blog will be worthwhile.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Marler</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-951</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Marler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Sep 2006 15:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-951</guid>
		<description>Doc, you make great points about cattle and E. coli O157:H7 - the problem with going that far upstream is legal causation - what farm did it come from?  However, the lettuce and spinach industry (at least the giant, bagged kind) needs to clean up its act and stop poisoning its customers.  See prior outbreaks at:  http://www.marlerblog.com/2006/09/articles/-legal-cases/source-for-past-e-coli-outbreaks/

Hi Bill--

Thanks for commenting.

As George Bernard Shaw said (and I&#039;m paraphrasing here): I find it hard to trust a man who tells me I need to have my gall bladder removed when he stands to make $500 by removing it.  In the same way I find it hard to take seriously the claim that the lettuce and spinach packing industry is &#039;poisoning its customers&#039; by someone who stands to make considerably more than $500 by pressing that point in court.

God knows there are many things that go on within the medical profession that make perfect sense to those in the profession but are totally mystifying to those without.  I&#039;m sure the same goes with the legal profession.  One of those things is just what you referred to in your comment.  It&#039;s difficult to trace the problem back to its true source, so instead attorney&#039;s find someone lower in the food chain who is less culpable but who has deep pockets (an absolute necessity), and that&#039;s who they go after.  Is that justice?  I&#039;m not a lawyer, so I don&#039;t know.  But within the legal profession, is that considered justice?

I have no dog in this fight since I&#039;m involved in neither the food packaging business nor in the feedlot business, but I am a little worried about the inevitable appearance of the law of unintended consequences.  My concern is that in all the finger pointing bound to take place the fact that it is the corn feeding of cattle that creates the problem will get lost in the hoopla.  Regulators, who are always looking for something to regulate, won&#039;t differentiate between corn-fed and range-fed cattle; they will deem the waste from both to be a danger and by edict force the separation of both from any produce growing operation, which could be the death knell for many of the small family farms that I think produce the best food to be had in this country.

Cheers--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doc, you make great points about cattle and E. coli O157:H7 &#8211; the problem with going that far upstream is legal causation &#8211; what farm did it come from?  However, the lettuce and spinach industry (at least the giant, bagged kind) needs to clean up its act and stop poisoning its customers.  See prior outbreaks at:  <a href="http://www.marlerblog.com/2006/09/articles/-legal-cases/source-for-past-e-coli-outbreaks/" rel="nofollow">http://www.marlerblog.com/2006/09/articles/-legal-cases/source-for-past-e-coli-outbreaks/</a></p>
<p>Hi Bill&#8211;</p>
<p>Thanks for commenting.</p>
<p>As George Bernard Shaw said (and I&#8217;m paraphrasing here): I find it hard to trust a man who tells me I need to have my gall bladder removed when he stands to make $500 by removing it.  In the same way I find it hard to take seriously the claim that the lettuce and spinach packing industry is &#8216;poisoning its customers&#8217; by someone who stands to make considerably more than $500 by pressing that point in court.</p>
<p>God knows there are many things that go on within the medical profession that make perfect sense to those in the profession but are totally mystifying to those without.  I&#8217;m sure the same goes with the legal profession.  One of those things is just what you referred to in your comment.  It&#8217;s difficult to trace the problem back to its true source, so instead attorney&#8217;s find someone lower in the food chain who is less culpable but who has deep pockets (an absolute necessity), and that&#8217;s who they go after.  Is that justice?  I&#8217;m not a lawyer, so I don&#8217;t know.  But within the legal profession, is that considered justice?</p>
<p>I have no dog in this fight since I&#8217;m involved in neither the food packaging business nor in the feedlot business, but I am a little worried about the inevitable appearance of the law of unintended consequences.  My concern is that in all the finger pointing bound to take place the fact that it is the corn feeding of cattle that creates the problem will get lost in the hoopla.  Regulators, who are always looking for something to regulate, won&#8217;t differentiate between corn-fed and range-fed cattle; they will deem the waste from both to be a danger and by edict force the separation of both from any produce growing operation, which could be the death knell for many of the small family farms that I think produce the best food to be had in this country.</p>
<p>Cheers&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: LarryAJ</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-950</link>
		<dc:creator>LarryAJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 11:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-950</guid>
		<description>If the following from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, is correct, then there may have been good reason for early man to have milked animals such as cows and goats well before he started to cultivate plants. We know that some immunity is passed from the mother to her child via breast milk. Surely that is not unique to human mammals. 

&quot;In recent years, there has been some consumer interest in raw milk products, due to perceived health benefits. Advocates of raw milk maintain, correctly, that some components survive in milk that has not been pasteurized. Specifically, raw milk contains immunoglobulins and the enzymes lipase and phosphatase, which are inactivated by heat. Raw milk also contains vitamin B6 of which up to 20% may be lost on heat treatment. It is also claimed to contain beneficial bacteria which aid digestion and boost immunity.&quot;

Hi Larry--

The Wikepedia entry is accurate.  Bovine colostrum is available today, and is a great supplement to ward off illness because of the immunoglobulins it contains.  In fact, I&#039;m going to post on that very issue soon.  Question is, did Paleolithic man milk and use dairy products?  It would seem to me that wild animals would not hold still long enough to be milked.  If early man had domesticated animals so that they could be milked, it would seem reasonable that their would be archaeological evidence of this.  As far as I know--and admittedly, I don&#039;t keep up with the archaeological literature as much as I do the medical literature--this evidence hasn&#039;t been found.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the following from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, is correct, then there may have been good reason for early man to have milked animals such as cows and goats well before he started to cultivate plants. We know that some immunity is passed from the mother to her child via breast milk. Surely that is not unique to human mammals. </p>
<p>&#8220;In recent years, there has been some consumer interest in raw milk products, due to perceived health benefits. Advocates of raw milk maintain, correctly, that some components survive in milk that has not been pasteurized. Specifically, raw milk contains immunoglobulins and the enzymes lipase and phosphatase, which are inactivated by heat. Raw milk also contains vitamin B6 of which up to 20% may be lost on heat treatment. It is also claimed to contain beneficial bacteria which aid digestion and boost immunity.&#8221;</p>
<p>Hi Larry&#8211;</p>
<p>The Wikepedia entry is accurate.  Bovine colostrum is available today, and is a great supplement to ward off illness because of the immunoglobulins it contains.  In fact, I&#8217;m going to post on that very issue soon.  Question is, did Paleolithic man milk and use dairy products?  It would seem to me that wild animals would not hold still long enough to be milked.  If early man had domesticated animals so that they could be milked, it would seem reasonable that their would be archaeological evidence of this.  As far as I know&#8211;and admittedly, I don&#8217;t keep up with the archaeological literature as much as I do the medical literature&#8211;this evidence hasn&#8217;t been found.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-949</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-949</guid>
		<description>Excellent article. I too fear that the heavy hand of government is going to weigh unfairly on the small farm/family farm that raises cattle on grass. 

The comment from the Dr. incorrectly suggesting that raising cattle separate from produce is the agricultural ideal is nonsense and is indicative of the startling level of ignorance of food production. Historically, the most productive type of farm has been one than relies on the symbiotic relationship between sun, soil, water, animals and plants. 

It was the replacement of solar farming for fossil fuels farming, the removal of traditional farm animals from the farm system and the monocropping of corn and soy that has led to the situation we currently face. 

I fear a mandatory push for chemical fertilizers, even for grass farmers, is just around the corner.

Richard Morris
breadandmoney.com

Hi Richard--

Thanks for the astute comment.  You are absolutely correct about the farms (usually family) that rely on the symbiotic relationship between the animals and the plants producing the best food available.  A case in point is Polyface Farm in Virginia. http://www.polyfacefarms.com/
There cattle manure is used to build compost and enrich the soil, but the cattle aren&#039;t fed out on corn, so there is no worry about O157:H7.

Like you, I fear the bureaucrats will seize on this latest debacle and use it for an excuse to separate cattle from produce and cause huge problems for the small, family farm, which, in my opinion, produces the best food that can be bought.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article. I too fear that the heavy hand of government is going to weigh unfairly on the small farm/family farm that raises cattle on grass. </p>
<p>The comment from the Dr. incorrectly suggesting that raising cattle separate from produce is the agricultural ideal is nonsense and is indicative of the startling level of ignorance of food production. Historically, the most productive type of farm has been one than relies on the symbiotic relationship between sun, soil, water, animals and plants. </p>
<p>It was the replacement of solar farming for fossil fuels farming, the removal of traditional farm animals from the farm system and the monocropping of corn and soy that has led to the situation we currently face. </p>
<p>I fear a mandatory push for chemical fertilizers, even for grass farmers, is just around the corner.</p>
<p>Richard Morris<br />
breadandmoney.com</p>
<p>Hi Richard&#8211;</p>
<p>Thanks for the astute comment.  You are absolutely correct about the farms (usually family) that rely on the symbiotic relationship between the animals and the plants producing the best food available.  A case in point is Polyface Farm in Virginia. <a href="http://www.polyfacefarms.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.polyfacefarms.com/</a><br />
There cattle manure is used to build compost and enrich the soil, but the cattle aren&#8217;t fed out on corn, so there is no worry about O157:H7.</p>
<p>Like you, I fear the bureaucrats will seize on this latest debacle and use it for an excuse to separate cattle from produce and cause huge problems for the small, family farm, which, in my opinion, produces the best food that can be bought.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: danielchongnd</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/uncategorized/more-on-e-coli-o157h7/comment-page-1/#comment-948</link>
		<dc:creator>danielchongnd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 20:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=286#comment-948</guid>
		<description>Hello Dr. Eades,
This discussion brought to mind something I read recently in regards to the paleo diet and dairy intake.  As you know, dairy foods are one of the many to be avoided on the standard paleo diet, ala cordain, with the reasoning that it, along with grains, potatoes and corn, were not consumed until agriculture started.

I agree that many people can have problems digesting dairy, but that a lot of that has to do with the quality of the dairy, and the way it is consumed (raw vs. pasteurized, plain vs. cultured).  Therefore, in my recommendations to patients, I always say to try some of these &quot;better&quot; forms of dairy, and if they&#039;re ok, go for it.

However, I just came across some info suggesting that humans could have been herding and milking animals for a lot longer than agriculture has been around, and so could have been eating dairy for much longer than grains. This line of reasoning also suggests that there is no reason for herding to have followed with agriculture, as it was quite a bit easier to simply build a fence, herd the animals and milk them for an easy source of high quality protein and fat.

If this is the case, then maybe dairy should be part of the paleo diet.

Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated.
Daniel Chong

Hi Daniel--

I&#039;ve read that same theory, and I don&#039;t really have a problem with good quality dairy products as long as people tolerate them okay.

Dr. Cordain is doing some interesting work with the combination of milk and wheat that would give me pause to eat the two of them together.  I would think, though, that the dairy without the wheat wouldn&#039;t cause problems in most people not sensitive to dairy.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Dr. Eades,<br />
This discussion brought to mind something I read recently in regards to the paleo diet and dairy intake.  As you know, dairy foods are one of the many to be avoided on the standard paleo diet, ala cordain, with the reasoning that it, along with grains, potatoes and corn, were not consumed until agriculture started.</p>
<p>I agree that many people can have problems digesting dairy, but that a lot of that has to do with the quality of the dairy, and the way it is consumed (raw vs. pasteurized, plain vs. cultured).  Therefore, in my recommendations to patients, I always say to try some of these &#8220;better&#8221; forms of dairy, and if they&#8217;re ok, go for it.</p>
<p>However, I just came across some info suggesting that humans could have been herding and milking animals for a lot longer than agriculture has been around, and so could have been eating dairy for much longer than grains. This line of reasoning also suggests that there is no reason for herding to have followed with agriculture, as it was quite a bit easier to simply build a fence, herd the animals and milk them for an easy source of high quality protein and fat.</p>
<p>If this is the case, then maybe dairy should be part of the paleo diet.</p>
<p>Your thoughts, as always, are appreciated.<br />
Daniel Chong</p>
<p>Hi Daniel&#8211;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read that same theory, and I don&#8217;t really have a problem with good quality dairy products as long as people tolerate them okay.</p>
<p>Dr. Cordain is doing some interesting work with the combination of milk and wheat that would give me pause to eat the two of them together.  I would think, though, that the dairy without the wheat wouldn&#8217;t cause problems in most people not sensitive to dairy.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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