Don’t talk sh*t when you’re outnumbered!

It’s probably a lesson I’ve yet to learn.

Cheers–

MRE

As a person who is privy to conversations taking apart mainstream Americans when none are present,I know that some of those conversations can be pretty frightening. If it were only rhetoric, like with Cubans who can be wordy and dramatic, I wouldn’t care. I can’t speak for other cultures, and would be very wary of young men from various cultures having conversations like the ones my relatives have. Please remember, as Dr Mike has already said, all the terrorists are young men. The nineteen 9/11 terrorists were all middle class and educated.

Regarding the UK Sharia law polls, I apologize if I misrepresented 40% as a majority, but I still find that number quite disturbing. 40% takes in some of the younger population, not just the old fuddy duddies.

Hi LC–

I don’t know that I would have the courage to confront 20 of my relatives at once over such a sensitive issue.

Brava!

MRE 

Appealing to ideas of ‘moderate Islam’ as the effectively controlling influence on the spread of the Sh’aria fuelled Islamic fundamentalist menace is about as naive as Nazi appeasement was not that many years ago. Which isn’t to say that the Iraq debacle is not totally deplorable. Or totally avoidable. It’s no accident that George Bush Jnr. is seen by the analysts I respect as a gift from Allah to fundamentalist Islam.

I think Mike’s point about the education, sophistication, family affluence and youth of the major architects (not to mention a sizable proportion of its foot soldiers) of Islamic extremism is paricularly pertinent to this whole debate.

These guys just think there’s a violent (and usually the more violent the better) solution to any and every affront against their particular flavour of religious gobbledygook.

The Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons of this World are just not (and never will be) in the same league.
Religious tolerance has nothing to do with tolerating the excesses of religion. It’s about not insulting people for being superstitious, but making sure that religious nutcases don’t reverse even a single step of four or five centuries of Western secular jurisprudence. Fundamentalist Islam is more than capable of doing just that. Mainly because it most definitely does appeal to the younger generation.

Hi Stuart–

I agree totally.

Cheers–

MRE 

Mike,

I heard you and MD lecture for Boulderfest 2004 I believe. That was a great lecture both of you gave. I loved the idea about uncoupling of proteins and talking about thermodynamics, great stuff. Your wife’s pretty sharp and her recipes make my mouth water when I read them. So I think you should stay with that smart beauty queen from Arkansas(?) lol

Hi Robert–

The talk was about uncoupling proteins and thermodynamics, so you must have been paying attention.

I probably will stick with the smart beauty queen from Arkansas–she’s a keeper. Every now and then she could use a little applied Sharia to keep her in line, but most of the time she’s perfect.

Cheers–

MRE

Second, I am concerned, but what should we do about the western Muslims?

I don’t think we should build a fence around a group of people that is 70% with us. I can’t think of a quicker way to alienate those Muslims who think like us. I think Scott’s desire to know the muslims is a smart way to go. I don’t know but one Muslim well, and I enjoyed knowing him and respected him. It is very hard for me to imagine him flying airplanes into buildings or recruiting suicide bombers. He was my boss and he very much enjoyed and deserved the success he was having in America.

These problems might blow over if we keep our cool and don’t make things worse. Things might very turn out like they did with the IRA in Ireland. That war is over because the guys involved got too busy with their success. Ireland became a successful rich country with opportunities. So the IRA guys started running successful businesses, taking vacations in Spain, just didn’t have enough time to gather up some explosives, creep out in the night and blow some stuff up. Plus, if they went to jail, they would lose their businesses. Too much to lose. An easy choice to make-giving up the dangers of revolution for the joys of making money.

So, I am thinking that treating western Muslims with courtesy and respect, and seeking their support in finding malcontents is the smart thing to do. Which hopefully is what we are already doing.

Hi David–

Were I to meet any Muslims I would certainly treat them with respect. And I do hope that they all start making a lot of money and start focusing on career and family. But, remember, Osama bin Laden, an engineer, came from a very wealthy family and Ayman al-Zawahiri, a trained surgeon, came from a well-to-do family, so careers and wealth don’t always mean squat.  And both were young, not old fuddy duddies, when they started their careers as terrorists.

I think the older Muslims are a stabilizing influence on the younger ones, who I think are more prone to be fundamentalists.

Best–

MRE 

It’s not that sobering. I’m sure if they tracked those respondents by age, the vast majority would be quite a bit older. The generation gap for Western Muslims is massive. You have old country, religious fuddy duddy elderly and internet porn surfing, telly watching, beer drinking, rap listening, completely westernized, non religious kids. The old people look at the kids and throw their hands up in the air. These elderly vote for the possibility of hardline Sharia Law because they feel like their kids are out of control.

If and when the Muslim population overtakes the non-Muslim population, these elderly hardliners will all be dead. The countries in Europe will never be taken over by Muslim extremists.

Dr. Eades, cultivate a friendship with a Western educated Muslim or two, preferably a young Muslim, but any age will do. Hang out. Get to know them. Then come back and talk about the Islamic threat to Western Europe. If you’re going to make broad sweeping statements about Muslims, you should at least know one or two.

Because of your vast amount of knowledge and celebrity status, your opinion carries a tremendous amount of weight. Most of us don’t have to worry about being wrong, as our influence doesn’t extend that far. You do.

Get your head out of the newspaper and get to know these people.

Hi Scott–

Hmmm.   The statement that “you are sure if they tracked those respondents by age, the vast majority would be quite a bit older” implies that only older Muslims are extremists.  First, you don’t know whether or not the age of those wishing to live under Sharia is older, it’s just a guess.  Second, I can’t recall a single perpetrator of 9-11 who was elderly or, as you called them, an old fuddy duddy.  Same with the Madrid train bombings, same with the bombings in London.  In fact, I can’t recall a single suicide bomber that was anything but a young person.  And don’t tell me that you’re referring only to those Muslims living in the West.  Every single Muslim involved in all the 9-11, Madrid, and London atrocities lived in the West, a number of them for many years.  And were all young, and would, I’m sure, vote to live under Sharia.

If and when the Muslim population takes over, I fear that it will be the young extremists, and that the moderating influence of the older people will be gone because they will have all died off.

I would be more than happy to cultivate a friendship with a Western Muslim.  How do you propose I do it?  Put an add in the paper?

Cheers–

MRE 

Amen to both of you!

“If your political ideas are so good, why did you have to flee your own country? DON’T BRING YOUR BAD IDEAS HERE.” I think this sums it up nicely.

Hi Robert–

It was a brilliant response.  Do you want to marry her, too?

Cheers–

MRE 

(link to poll)

HI David–

It is indeed more frightening, even if it were only 30% that voted that way.  And these aren’t people who live in Saudi Arabia; they are folks who have had a taste of what the Western world has to offer.  And they would still prefer to live under a rigid form of Sharia.

Thanks for the link to the poll.

MRE 

Glenice

Hi Glenice–

I hope and pray that I’m wrong.  I spend a lot of time in Europe; I love it there.  I spend an inordinate amount of time plotting and scheming on how I could live there–at least for a while.  I would hate to see it destroyed.  The climate is pretty much the same in Tehran as it is in many European cities, but I wouldn’t want to live there.

Cheers–

MRE 

It’s possible I’m misreading your post, but are you equating vast numbers of moderate European Muslims with fundamentalist factions in the Middle East?

A recent poll in Britain found 40% of Muslims in that country wanted to implement Sharia law. If that is moderation, it isn’t moderate enough for my taste.

Little Green Footballs does have a lot of articles on the European Muslim population you can sift through. After you are done, I doubt you’ll feel very reassured by the moderation of the community.

Hi Tommy–

If those are the figures, I overstated the percentage in a previous answer to a comment.  I’m with you, though, even 40% isn’t moderate to my taste either.

Cheers–

MRE