Comments on: Vegetarians AGE faster http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/ A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy. Thu, 20 Nov 2008 15:19:44 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Bev in Canada http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-191278 Bev in Canada Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:15:16 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-191278 I quit smoking almost 2 years ago and have gained more than 30 pounds even though I remained low-carb. Two different naturopaths told me it's because my liver is severely taxed from all the protein I was eating. They both recommended that I eat a more vegetarian-type diet with whole grains/legumes and very little animal protein. When I followed their advice, I didn't lose any weight and experienced severe brain-fog to the point that I couldn't function at work. The only good thing was that my constant acne cleared up. Both docs don't understand why this didn't work for me and they said that they see a lot of former low-carbers that have toxic livers. I went back to LC and my acne returned but I still haven't lost any weight. Do you have any suggestions? After almost 2 years, I just don't know what else to try. <em>It's total hogwash and nonsense that your liver is 'severely taxed' from the protein in your diet. Low carbers don't eat all that much more protein than anyone else, and even if they did, it wouldn't tax the liver. I wonder if they don't teach biochemistry and physiology in naturopath schools? I would think not except that I've heard this same nonsense from MDs, and I know MDs get biochem and physiology in medical school. You should read <a href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carb-and-calories-2/" rel="nofollow">this post</a>, <a href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/low-carb-and-calories-part-2/" rel="nofollow">this one</a> and <a href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/weight-loss/caloric-torpedos/" rel="nofollow">this one</a>, and act accordingly. You probably need to cut some of the calories from your diet. If you're truly on low-carb (not just sort of low-carb, but truly low-carb) and you aren't losing, then you're taking in too many calories. Try to get you diet jump started by substituting a couple of protein shakes for meals, then eat a whole-food, low-carb meal for supper.</em> I quit smoking almost 2 years ago and have gained more than 30 pounds even though I remained low-carb. Two different naturopaths told me it’s because my liver is severely taxed from all the protein I was eating. They both recommended that I eat a more vegetarian-type diet with whole grains/legumes and very little animal protein. When I followed their advice, I didn’t lose any weight and experienced severe brain-fog to the point that I couldn’t function at work. The only good thing was that my constant acne cleared up. Both docs don’t understand why this didn’t work for me and they said that they see a lot of former low-carbers that have toxic livers.
I went back to LC and my acne returned but I still haven’t lost any weight. Do you have any suggestions? After almost 2 years, I just don’t know what else to try.

It’s total hogwash and nonsense that your liver is ’severely taxed’ from the protein in your diet. Low carbers don’t eat all that much more protein than anyone else, and even if they did, it wouldn’t tax the liver. I wonder if they don’t teach biochemistry and physiology in naturopath schools? I would think not except that I’ve heard this same nonsense from MDs, and I know MDs get biochem and physiology in medical school.

You should read this post, this one and this one, and act accordingly. You probably need to cut some of the calories from your diet. If you’re truly on low-carb (not just sort of low-carb, but truly low-carb) and you aren’t losing, then you’re taking in too many calories.

Try to get you diet jump started by substituting a couple of protein shakes for meals, then eat a whole-food, low-carb meal for supper.

]]> By: Eric http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-188972 Eric Wed, 12 Nov 2008 07:12:42 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-188972 I've been a vegetarian since 1996. I'm not going to try and claim my lifestyle is the healthiest. That's a job for others (some here?) though I'm sure they'll continue to revise their information as they learn new things, the same as I do. And while I've never suffered from the dizzy spells or acne, or other weird experiences some have claimed here, which I suspect may have come from most peoples' early trials at vegetarianism (which almost inevitably end up being some kind of bread or Cheese Pizza Diet) -- I try to eat plenty of eggs, nuts, and soy in moderation (estrogen, really?) -- I think the largest benefits thus far in being a vegetarian is that it rules out most fast food (and other mindless sources) and forces me to read labels. So when I'm looking for things like chicken stock or lard (not exactly requisites for a paleo diet), it's easy enough while I'm at it to look for things like enriched/bleached flour and corn syrup. And to me, it's the paying attention part that matters. Both paleo-dieters and myself have something in common; we're both looking to reduce carbs, and find better sources of protein. Paleo-dieters may get there faster, that's okay. I'm not sure exactly what they gain by beating me over the head with it. :) P.S. I do not think meat was easily available or heavily consumed in the paleo-diet as theorists suggest, nor was it consumed to the degree that say, modern Americans do. Our (and chimp) evolution high protein meats are somewhat of a luxury. Occasional, rather than something heavily feasted upon three meals a day. It is also pretty much impossible to tell from prehistoric food pits, the frequency with which meat was consumed based on the animal bones alone. It's easy to look at that data and say, "Wow there's a ton of animal bones here, they must have ate meat all the time." Hardly a scientific conclusion, if I may say so. It's possible to say roughly over how many years the food pit was used, or what broader time span, but to derive any kind of daily consumption data from it would be next-to-impossible. While adequate protein is a necessary part of a modern diet, it is not necessarily proven that source of protein is or has to be meat. Unless of course, you like it. Which brings me to a larger point; In this modern age we have the luxury of preference in where we acquire our nutrients. Bugs and reptiles are probably a great source of protein, though I doubt you'll find many Western paleo-dieters eating them. Interesting, isn't it? Surely they must be missing out on some health advantages! :) Or might I propose, we just eat what we like as long as we can find ways to reshape our tastes along an axis of long term health. Get the best nutrients you can, from the sources you enjoy the most. I’ve been a vegetarian since 1996. I’m not going to try and claim my lifestyle is the healthiest. That’s a job for others (some here?) though I’m sure they’ll continue to revise their information as they learn new things, the same as I do.

And while I’ve never suffered from the dizzy spells or acne, or other weird experiences some have claimed here, which I suspect may have come from most peoples’ early trials at vegetarianism (which almost inevitably end up being some kind of bread or Cheese Pizza Diet) — I try to eat plenty of eggs, nuts, and soy in moderation (estrogen, really?) — I think the largest benefits thus far in being a vegetarian is that it rules out most fast food (and other mindless sources) and forces me to read labels.

So when I’m looking for things like chicken stock or lard (not exactly requisites for a paleo diet), it’s easy enough while I’m at it to look for things like enriched/bleached flour and corn syrup.

And to me, it’s the paying attention part that matters. Both paleo-dieters and myself have something in common; we’re both looking to reduce carbs, and find better sources of protein. Paleo-dieters may get there faster, that’s okay. I’m not sure exactly what they gain by beating me over the head with it. :)

P.S. I do not think meat was easily available or heavily consumed in the paleo-diet as theorists suggest, nor was it consumed to the degree that say, modern Americans do. Our (and chimp) evolution high protein meats are somewhat of a luxury. Occasional, rather than something heavily feasted upon three meals a day.

It is also pretty much impossible to tell from prehistoric food pits, the frequency with which meat was consumed based on the animal bones alone. It’s easy to look at that data and say, “Wow there’s a ton of animal bones here, they must have ate meat all the time.” Hardly a scientific conclusion, if I may say so. It’s possible to say roughly over how many years the food pit was used, or what broader time span, but to derive any kind of daily consumption data from it would be next-to-impossible.

While adequate protein is a necessary part of a modern diet, it is not necessarily proven that source of protein is or has to be meat. Unless of course, you like it. Which brings me to a larger point; In this modern age we have the luxury of preference in where we acquire our nutrients. Bugs and reptiles are probably a great source of protein, though I doubt you’ll find many Western paleo-dieters eating them. Interesting, isn’t it? Surely they must be missing out on some health advantages! :)

Or might I propose, we just eat what we like as long as we can find ways to reshape our tastes along an axis of long term health. Get the best nutrients you can, from the sources you enjoy the most.

]]> By: David http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-164889 David Tue, 19 Aug 2008 02:10:37 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-164889 It really struck me to read "frail and pale", because that sums up my girlfriend, who I am becoming concerned about. She became a vegetarian five years ago and seems to be wearing down. The doctor said she has anemia now, and she simply doesn't look healthy. She's thin, but not in a good way. It really struck me to read “frail and pale”, because that sums up my girlfriend, who I am becoming concerned about. She became a vegetarian five years ago and seems to be wearing down. The doctor said she has anemia now, and she simply doesn’t look healthy. She’s thin, but not in a good way.

]]> By: tammy http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-158606 tammy Sat, 02 Aug 2008 03:23:53 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-158606 Wow, what a bunch of nonsense this is. I've been a vegetarian for over the past 20 years. I'm 46 now and people can't believe how young-looking I am. I have tons of energy every day and need little sleep. I often get thought of to be a teenager. I've had 7 babies (one set of twins) and yet now only weight 103 at 5'1", and I cover 6 to 8 miles (walking, jogging, and running) 5 to 6 times a week. I have low blood pressure and my pulse is around 55 bpm. I'm not saying people should be vegans, but eating the average US diet of animal food three times a day!? No way! I only eat some dairy, egg, or even some fish maybe once or twice a month, if that! I see other people my age who eat lots of animal foods and they look WAY OLDER than me. You guys need to look at the amazing Tarahumara Indians in Mexico who eat vegan foods (bean, corn, veggies, fruits) daily and then some meat once a month and yet can run 50 to 100 mile races like it's nothing. Folks, you've all been brain-washed by the meat and dairy industries! The medical scientific literature is full of studies showing that large amounts of animal foods cause cancer! Read The China Study...the doctor who wrote this recounts how physicians are being paid lavishly by the meat and dairy industries to suppress the overwhelming mountains of evidence against eating large amounts of animal foods as THE CAUSE of cancer. Please, read this book, it will wake you up to what's really gone on in this country! And watch Earthlings if you think it's perfectly fine to keep taking the lives of animals...they suffer tortuously at the hands of human workers. The less animals we eat THE BETTER, especially for the human workers paid to do this savage slaughterhouse work who eventually suffer from drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and/or committing domestic violence to their families, if not worse to their communities, from the constant day in and day out bloody lethal violence against living beings. <em>Hi Tammy-- Thanks for writing, but, alas, I fear the nonsense here is in your comment, not in the blog post or the scientific study the blog post described. I'm glad you've done so well on a vegetarian diet, but just because it has worked for you doesn't mean it will work for the majority of humanity. In fact, if you look at the scientific literature, it's pretty clear that it won't. I, too, look younger than my age and am extremely active. And I get probably 80-90 percent of my calories from meat. But that's not a recommendation for the rest of the world just because it works for me. The scientific study the blog is about showed what it showed, which is that vegetarians (at least the ones studied) had higher levels of inflammation. I didn't do the study, I simply reported it. As most readers of this blog can tell you, the China Study - although it confirms the dietary bias of vegetarians - is worthless as a piece of the scientific puzzle. It is suitable only for vegetarians who want their worldview confirmed, not as valid science. If you dare to read another take on the China Study than that of all your veggie friends, click on <a href="http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>. Come back when you've disproved it. Cheers-- MRE</em> Wow, what a bunch of nonsense this is.
I’ve been a vegetarian for over the past 20 years. I’m 46 now and people can’t believe how young-looking I am. I have tons of energy every day and need little sleep. I often get thought of to be a teenager. I’ve had 7 babies (one set of twins) and yet now only weight 103 at 5′1″, and I cover 6 to 8 miles (walking, jogging, and running) 5 to 6 times a week. I have low blood pressure and my pulse is around 55 bpm. I’m not saying people should be vegans, but eating the average US diet of animal food three times a day!? No way! I only eat some dairy, egg, or even some fish maybe once or twice a month, if that! I see other people my age who eat lots of animal foods and they look WAY OLDER than me.
You guys need to look at the amazing Tarahumara Indians in Mexico who eat vegan foods (bean, corn, veggies, fruits) daily and then some meat once a month and yet can run 50 to 100 mile races like it’s nothing. Folks, you’ve all been brain-washed by the meat and dairy industries! The medical scientific literature is full of studies showing that large amounts of animal foods cause cancer! Read The China Study…the doctor who wrote this recounts how physicians are being paid lavishly by the meat and dairy industries to suppress the overwhelming mountains of evidence against eating large amounts of animal foods as THE CAUSE of cancer. Please, read this book, it will wake you up to what’s really gone on in this country!
And watch Earthlings if you think it’s perfectly fine to keep taking the lives of animals…they suffer tortuously at the hands of human workers. The less animals we eat THE BETTER, especially for the human workers paid to do this savage slaughterhouse work who eventually suffer from drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and/or committing domestic violence to their families, if not worse to their communities, from the constant day in and day out bloody lethal violence against living beings.

Hi Tammy–

Thanks for writing, but, alas, I fear the nonsense here is in your comment, not in the blog post or the scientific study the blog post described.

I’m glad you’ve done so well on a vegetarian diet, but just because it has worked for you doesn’t mean it will work for the majority of humanity. In fact, if you look at the scientific literature, it’s pretty clear that it won’t. I, too, look younger than my age and am extremely active. And I get probably 80-90 percent of my calories from meat. But that’s not a recommendation for the rest of the world just because it works for me.

The scientific study the blog is about showed what it showed, which is that vegetarians (at least the ones studied) had higher levels of inflammation. I didn’t do the study, I simply reported it.

As most readers of this blog can tell you, the China Study - although it confirms the dietary bias of vegetarians - is worthless as a piece of the scientific puzzle. It is suitable only for vegetarians who want their worldview confirmed, not as valid science. If you dare to read another take on the China Study than that of all your veggie friends, click on this. Come back when you’ve disproved it.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Stephen http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-154016 Stephen Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:09:46 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-154016 Well after reading your statements on the subject it seems that you only have one thing on your mind and this is of course selling more of your books. You took a paper with a small sampling of people from a small part of the world and came to the conclusion that vegetarians age faster. Anyone who would listen to you is indeed in need of help from a doctor......a physiatrist! Above someone asks: "I’m curious how much faster do vegetarians age then." You answer: "I don’t know that there is any way to make that calculation. I do know, however, that in a study of centenarians many commenters on this site mentioned, there were no vegetarians in the group." My question then is how many centenarians that follow your guidelines for living are alive in any part of the world today? Is there a way to tell? Your answer to the questions should be that you can't tell us but I'm sure you will come up with something. Someone says they updated the Wikipedia page on vegetarians and you get a hard on because it now shows your name on the page and you might sell another book pushing your pro meat diet. I'm not a vegetarian but I can't stand the likes of your kind trying to tell people how right you are and how wrong others are just to sell a book. You are no better then the wacko doctor that gives medication to people to make a profit from the drug companies regardless of what they really need to feel better and live better. You will always have to push a high protein diet because that's how you make your money. And for you retards out there that read this mans garbage as true and factual consider that he is just trying to make money on his books. He is no better then the farmer pushing his eggs or the Montana rancher pushing his cattle on the beef "it's whats for dinner" commercials. Wake up and see this joke for what he is: a book seller. Just as the rancher is a meat seller. For your followers that will never stop reading your crappy blogs and buying your slanted books here is a link to a real doctor that tells us to simply; Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. What say you doctor? If that is indeed your title. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all By the way here is a list of 531 people who are vegetarians or vegan that seem to be doing just fine without your books...... http://www.happycow.net/famous_vegetarians.html LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!!! <em>Ah, a long, vulgar missive from another angry vegetarian whose brain is deprived of saturated fat and cholesterol. Do me a favor, pal. Eat a little meat for a couple of weeks and see if you don't become a happier person. And a brighter one. Cheers-- MRE</em> Well after reading your statements on the subject it seems that you only have one thing on your mind and this is of course selling more of your books. You took a paper with a small sampling of people from a small part of the world and came to the conclusion that vegetarians age faster. Anyone who would listen to you is indeed in need of help from a doctor……a physiatrist!

Above someone asks: “I’m curious how much faster do vegetarians age then.” You answer:
“I don’t know that there is any way to make that calculation. I do know, however, that in a study of centenarians many commenters on this site mentioned, there were no vegetarians in the group.”

My question then is how many centenarians that follow your guidelines for living are alive in any part of the world today? Is there a way to tell? Your answer to the questions should be that you can’t tell us but I’m sure you will come up with something.

Someone says they updated the Wikipedia page on vegetarians and you get a hard on because it now shows your name on the page and you might sell another book pushing your pro meat diet. I’m not a vegetarian but I can’t stand the likes of your kind trying to tell people how right you are and how wrong others are just to sell a book. You are no better then the wacko doctor that gives medication to people to make a profit from the drug companies regardless of what they really need to feel better and live better. You will always have to push a high protein diet because that’s how you make your money. And for you retards out there that read this mans garbage as true and factual consider that he is just trying to make money on his books. He is no better then the farmer pushing his eggs or the Montana rancher pushing his cattle on the beef “it’s whats for dinner” commercials. Wake up and see this joke for what he is: a book seller. Just as the rancher is a meat seller.

For your followers that will never stop reading your crappy blogs and buying your slanted books here is a link to a real doctor that tells us to simply; Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants. What say you doctor? If that is indeed your title. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/28/magazine/28nutritionism.t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

By the way here is a list of 531 people who are vegetarians or vegan that seem to be doing just fine without your books…… http://www.happycow.net/famous_vegetarians.html

LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS!!!

Ah, a long, vulgar missive from another angry vegetarian whose brain is deprived of saturated fat and cholesterol. Do me a favor, pal. Eat a little meat for a couple of weeks and see if you don’t become a happier person. And a brighter one.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Katy http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-138685 Katy Thu, 12 Jun 2008 00:17:28 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-138685 Vegetarians seem to have issues with osteoporosis to some extent. I've know at least five vegetarians whose bones have just shattered as a result of simply tripping or falling down. Three required surgery to repair the breaks, one suffers from stress fractures and she's only 15 years old (her parents were vegetarians and she grew up eating their way); she's supposed to take calcium supplements. I think bones may need more than the usual minerals to stay strong and flexible, such as lots of complete animal protein! Vegetarians seem to have issues with osteoporosis to some extent. I’ve know at least five vegetarians whose bones have just shattered as a result of simply tripping or falling down. Three required surgery to repair the breaks, one suffers from stress fractures and she’s only 15 years old (her parents were vegetarians and she grew up eating their way); she’s supposed to take calcium supplements. I think bones may need more than the usual minerals to stay strong and flexible, such as lots of complete animal protein!

]]> By: Heather http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-133345 Heather Wed, 28 May 2008 22:03:49 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-133345 It looks like the culprit in the vegetarians' diet was the fructose since they ate much more fructose rich fruit and vegetables and three times as much honey as the omnivores. Say you have a vegan who does not eat honey and does not eat any dried fruit or very much fresh fruit, who eats primarily starchy vegetables, beans and intact whole grains (cooked by boiling or steaming) which are not high in fructose with the addition of moderate amounts of fresh vegetables and a small amount of fresh fruit, who eats no processed grains, no oils, and no baked foods. Would this person AGE as fast as an omnivore? <em>Could be, but I have seen no studies on this so I can't say for sure. Cheers-- MRE</em> It looks like the culprit in the vegetarians’ diet was the fructose since they ate much more fructose rich fruit and vegetables and three times as much honey as the omnivores. Say you have a vegan who does not eat honey and does not eat any dried fruit or very much fresh fruit, who eats primarily starchy vegetables, beans and intact whole grains (cooked by boiling or steaming) which are not high in fructose with the addition of moderate amounts of fresh vegetables and a small amount of fresh fruit, who eats no processed grains, no oils, and no baked foods. Would this person AGE as fast as an omnivore?

Could be, but I have seen no studies on this so I can’t say for sure.

Cheers–

MRE

]]> By: Michael Simmons http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-130150 Michael Simmons Mon, 19 May 2008 01:52:04 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-130150 Interesting Interesting

]]> By: Mike http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-128278 Mike Mon, 12 May 2008 19:52:41 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-128278 What about " The China Study" ? <em>It would take much more space than I have in the comments section to give a complete debunking of the China Study because there is so much there to debunk. Maybe I'll do a long post on it some day.</em> What about ” The China Study” ?

It would take much more space than I have in the comments section to give a complete debunking of the China Study because there is so much there to debunk. Maybe I’ll do a long post on it some day.

]]> By: gary http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/sugar-and-sweeteners/vegetarians-age-faster-2/#comment-127520 gary Thu, 08 May 2008 07:13:26 +0000 http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1224#comment-127520 I'm curious how much faster do vegetarians age then. <em>I don't know that there is any way to make that calculation. I do know, however, that in a study of centenarians many commenters on this site mentioned, there were no vegetarians in the group.</em> I’m curious how much faster do vegetarians age then.

I don’t know that there is any way to make that calculation. I do know, however, that in a study of centenarians many commenters on this site mentioned, there were no vegetarians in the group.

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