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	<title>Comments on: Talking diet with your doctor</title>
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	<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/</link>
	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
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		<title>By: Alicia Vincent</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-180130</link>
		<dc:creator>Alicia Vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-180130</guid>
		<description>Hello,
I love your site and have made a few comments here and there.  I read it a lot because I am trying to educate a lot of my friends and family about the dangers of too many carbs, and I need a lot of &quot;ammunition&quot; to be able to support my arguments.  So far, it&#039;s an uphill battle.

Nonetheless, I need to tell you and all of your readers how much better I feel after reducing carbohydrate intake and eating lots meat and that oh-so-controversial nutrient, FAT!  I am not overweight, not have I ever been (47 years old, 123 pounds, a lot of muscle).  But I have blood sugar &quot;issues&quot;.  In between meals (particularly high carb ones) and at the end of the day (pre-dinner), I have blood sugar &quot;crashes&quot; that make me irritable, anxious, etc...and can even result in binge-eating.  I doubt seriously that I would qualify as hypoglycemic medically speaking, but I am sensitive to changes in blood sugar.  The absolutely worst is eating cereal for breakfast...I have the shakes within a few hours and am ravenous.  But NO MORE!  I feel absolutely great--all day long.

I am lucky enough to live in France--the French, with their low incidence of CVD eat a lot of charcuterie (sausages, meats, foie gras, etc...)...Their only sin is eating a lot of baguettes, which as Mary Enig suggests, contributes to a high rate of degenerative diseases.  The sad part is that the French have bought into the low-fat mantra generated by the US medical establishment and are now abandoning their healthy ways.  Hope that changes soon.  

Keep up the good work!

&lt;em&gt;And, sadly but predictably, since the French have abandoned their ways in favor of the US low-fat approach, obesity has been on the rise in France.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
I love your site and have made a few comments here and there.  I read it a lot because I am trying to educate a lot of my friends and family about the dangers of too many carbs, and I need a lot of &#8220;ammunition&#8221; to be able to support my arguments.  So far, it&#8217;s an uphill battle.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, I need to tell you and all of your readers how much better I feel after reducing carbohydrate intake and eating lots meat and that oh-so-controversial nutrient, FAT!  I am not overweight, not have I ever been (47 years old, 123 pounds, a lot of muscle).  But I have blood sugar &#8220;issues&#8221;.  In between meals (particularly high carb ones) and at the end of the day (pre-dinner), I have blood sugar &#8220;crashes&#8221; that make me irritable, anxious, etc&#8230;and can even result in binge-eating.  I doubt seriously that I would qualify as hypoglycemic medically speaking, but I am sensitive to changes in blood sugar.  The absolutely worst is eating cereal for breakfast&#8230;I have the shakes within a few hours and am ravenous.  But NO MORE!  I feel absolutely great&#8211;all day long.</p>
<p>I am lucky enough to live in France&#8211;the French, with their low incidence of CVD eat a lot of charcuterie (sausages, meats, foie gras, etc&#8230;)&#8230;Their only sin is eating a lot of baguettes, which as Mary Enig suggests, contributes to a high rate of degenerative diseases.  The sad part is that the French have bought into the low-fat mantra generated by the US medical establishment and are now abandoning their healthy ways.  Hope that changes soon.  </p>
<p>Keep up the good work!</p>
<p><em>And, sadly but predictably, since the French have abandoned their ways in favor of the US low-fat approach, obesity has been on the rise in France.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Carlos Zeledon</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177441</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlos Zeledon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 05:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177441</guid>
		<description>Dr. Mike

Another great post!  I can&#039;t thank you enough for all that you do, really!  this blog is such a a God send.  I read PP 10 years ago. Then PPLP, but it wasn&#039;t until  a year and half ago when my fasting blood glucose levels came at 125 that I took action.  You see, I aways been  a husky kind of guy, lift weights, jog a little, not your typical couch potato.  I was really shocked when that FBG test stared at me, I decided to take action.  Following the PPLP now my FBG is 102! 
I just got my blood test results and they are as follows:

Fasting glucose------103, last time was 110
HbA1c------------------Not measured, last time was 5.6
Total Chol-------------303, up fom 260
Direct LDL-------------209
Calculated LDL ------233
HDL----------------------56, up from 47 
Triglycerides---------70, down from 88

I am not concerned about the Chol. levels, but I am curious as to why my tot. Chol has increased.

Maybe I am one of those individuals with less LDL-C receptors and thus have a higher LDL-C.

&lt;em&gt;It&#039;s difficult to say why you total cholesterol increased.  It could even be a lab error.  My bet, based on observing the cholesterol levels of thousands of patients on low-carb diets, is that it will drop with time.  It&#039;ll probably be back to normal by your next lab test.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Mike</p>
<p>Another great post!  I can&#8217;t thank you enough for all that you do, really!  this blog is such a a God send.  I read PP 10 years ago. Then PPLP, but it wasn&#8217;t until  a year and half ago when my fasting blood glucose levels came at 125 that I took action.  You see, I aways been  a husky kind of guy, lift weights, jog a little, not your typical couch potato.  I was really shocked when that FBG test stared at me, I decided to take action.  Following the PPLP now my FBG is 102!<br />
I just got my blood test results and they are as follows:</p>
<p>Fasting glucose&#8212;&#8212;103, last time was 110<br />
HbA1c&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;Not measured, last time was 5.6<br />
Total Chol&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-303, up fom 260<br />
Direct LDL&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-209<br />
Calculated LDL &#8212;&#8212;233<br />
HDL&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-56, up from 47<br />
Triglycerides&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;70, down from 88</p>
<p>I am not concerned about the Chol. levels, but I am curious as to why my tot. Chol has increased.</p>
<p>Maybe I am one of those individuals with less LDL-C receptors and thus have a higher LDL-C.</p>
<p><em>It&#8217;s difficult to say why you total cholesterol increased.  It could even be a lab error.  My bet, based on observing the cholesterol levels of thousands of patients on low-carb diets, is that it will drop with time.  It&#8217;ll probably be back to normal by your next lab test.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177279</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177279</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m trying to learn about optimal nutrition for strength training and I keep coming across things like the text below that suggest low carb diets inhibit testosterone levels. Is this nonsense? I&#039;ve been following a low carb diet and have gotten a little weaker, but I think that is mainly due to lowered overall calories while trying to get down to 4% BF, which I am now at.

&quot;Research suggests that eating a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet can cramp your testosterone levels. High amounts of dietary protein in your blood can eventually lower the amount of testosterone produced in your testes, says Incledon, who observed this relationship in a Penn State study of 12 healthy, athletic men.&quot;

&lt;em&gt;Whenever you see the words &quot;research suggests&quot; you&#039;d better run.  No, low-carb diets don&#039;t &quot;cramp&quot; testosterone levels.  In fact, it is just the opposite.  The people who wrote this are probably the same kind of people who would finger low-carb diets as being too high in cholesterol.  Well, cholesterol is the molecule from which testosterone is made.  Cut cholesterol (think very low-fat, vegan diets) and you reduce testosterone.  Also, it&#039;s not just the overall amount of testosterone that&#039;s important, it is the amount of free testosterone (that which isn&#039;t bound to a binding protein making it unavailable for use), and it is well established that insulin resistance decreases free testosterone.  How.  Elevated levels of insulin drive the liver to make more SHBG (sex hormone-binding globulin), which binds more testosterone.  More bound means less free.  So a diet that reduces insulin levels (the low-carb diet is best at that) also reduces SHBG, which results in more free testosterone.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m trying to learn about optimal nutrition for strength training and I keep coming across things like the text below that suggest low carb diets inhibit testosterone levels. Is this nonsense? I&#8217;ve been following a low carb diet and have gotten a little weaker, but I think that is mainly due to lowered overall calories while trying to get down to 4% BF, which I am now at.</p>
<p>&#8220;Research suggests that eating a high-protein, low-carbohydrate diet can cramp your testosterone levels. High amounts of dietary protein in your blood can eventually lower the amount of testosterone produced in your testes, says Incledon, who observed this relationship in a Penn State study of 12 healthy, athletic men.&#8221;</p>
<p><em>Whenever you see the words &#8220;research suggests&#8221; you&#8217;d better run.  No, low-carb diets don&#8217;t &#8220;cramp&#8221; testosterone levels.  In fact, it is just the opposite.  The people who wrote this are probably the same kind of people who would finger low-carb diets as being too high in cholesterol.  Well, cholesterol is the molecule from which testosterone is made.  Cut cholesterol (think very low-fat, vegan diets) and you reduce testosterone.  Also, it&#8217;s not just the overall amount of testosterone that&#8217;s important, it is the amount of free testosterone (that which isn&#8217;t bound to a binding protein making it unavailable for use), and it is well established that insulin resistance decreases free testosterone.  How.  Elevated levels of insulin drive the liver to make more SHBG (sex hormone-binding globulin), which binds more testosterone.  More bound means less free.  So a diet that reduces insulin levels (the low-carb diet is best at that) also reduces SHBG, which results in more free testosterone.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Megan Bagwell</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177173</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan Bagwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 00:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177173</guid>
		<description>Hi Dr. Eades

My mom needs to lose weight and get healthy and I recommend a low carb diet for her all the time.  She now found out she has Diverticulosis.  What would you say are the optimal foods she should eat with this condition?  She&#039;s just not sure what to eat in her condition.

&lt;em&gt;Most docs would recommend a high-fiber diet, but all my patients with diverticulosis have done fine on low-carb diets.  Increasing the fat intake usually makes the colon work better anyway.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dr. Eades</p>
<p>My mom needs to lose weight and get healthy and I recommend a low carb diet for her all the time.  She now found out she has Diverticulosis.  What would you say are the optimal foods she should eat with this condition?  She&#8217;s just not sure what to eat in her condition.</p>
<p><em>Most docs would recommend a high-fiber diet, but all my patients with diverticulosis have done fine on low-carb diets.  Increasing the fat intake usually makes the colon work better anyway.</em></p>
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		<title>By: JanetSue</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177150</link>
		<dc:creator>JanetSue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 18:48:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177150</guid>
		<description>I am a type 1 diabetic.  I went low carb in March after having an A1C of 8.9, numerous episodes of crashing and rebounding with the blood sugar, weight gain, and generally feeling lousey.  Before I was diagnoised diabetic, I did low carb for many years.  Once diagnoised, the diabetic educator nearly had a heart attack when I ventured that low carb might be a good way of eating for this disease.  I could swear I saw her cross herself..ha, ha.  Anyway, luckily my local doctor is pro low carb and has supported my new regime which has lowered my weight by 22 lbs and my A1c to 6.0.  Unfortunately, my latest cholestrol break down shows my total up from 200 to 249, HDL seady at 87, and LDL from 90 to 151.  She wants to start me on a statin.  I don&#039;t want to go on one. The pressure is on since not only do I have diabetes, but my father died at 59 from a massive heart attack and all three of my brothers have had by-passes.  My question is, what other tactics might I try to lower the LDL before considering a statin.  Oh, I neglected to say I have been on a statin before and experienced the muscle aches...which have vanished since stopping the drug.  I enjoy your blog.

&lt;em&gt;Why do you have to resort to other tactics to avoid the statin?  The studies show that women of any age irrespective of their heart disease status gain no decrease in all-cause mortality by going on statins.  So why go on them at all. Especially since you experience negative side effects.  Ask your doctor to show you a study that is a double-blind, placebo-controlled study showing you will benefit from statin therapy in terms of a decrease in all-cause mortality.  There is no such study.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a type 1 diabetic.  I went low carb in March after having an A1C of 8.9, numerous episodes of crashing and rebounding with the blood sugar, weight gain, and generally feeling lousey.  Before I was diagnoised diabetic, I did low carb for many years.  Once diagnoised, the diabetic educator nearly had a heart attack when I ventured that low carb might be a good way of eating for this disease.  I could swear I saw her cross herself..ha, ha.  Anyway, luckily my local doctor is pro low carb and has supported my new regime which has lowered my weight by 22 lbs and my A1c to 6.0.  Unfortunately, my latest cholestrol break down shows my total up from 200 to 249, HDL seady at 87, and LDL from 90 to 151.  She wants to start me on a statin.  I don&#8217;t want to go on one. The pressure is on since not only do I have diabetes, but my father died at 59 from a massive heart attack and all three of my brothers have had by-passes.  My question is, what other tactics might I try to lower the LDL before considering a statin.  Oh, I neglected to say I have been on a statin before and experienced the muscle aches&#8230;which have vanished since stopping the drug.  I enjoy your blog.</p>
<p><em>Why do you have to resort to other tactics to avoid the statin?  The studies show that women of any age irrespective of their heart disease status gain no decrease in all-cause mortality by going on statins.  So why go on them at all. Especially since you experience negative side effects.  Ask your doctor to show you a study that is a double-blind, placebo-controlled study showing you will benefit from statin therapy in terms of a decrease in all-cause mortality.  There is no such study.</em></p>
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		<title>By: james Ehrlich, MD</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177138</link>
		<dc:creator>james Ehrlich, MD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 14:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177138</guid>
		<description>As an expert in cardiovascular risk assessment, prevention and the management of lipids, i agree only partially with Dr Garber&#039;s metaphor about the # of vehicles rather than the passenger count as being important.  We wish cardiovascular disease and the development of plaque was that simple.  Dr. Garber is entirely correct that the particle # or Apo B reflect risk in a patient more than cholesterol content. However, it is a simplistic notion to believe that it is only particle number or Apo B that determines the damage to the artery wall.  If one had 10 bombers filled with mega-ton weapons, it would do more damage than 20 light planes with unarmed commercial passengers.  The point is this---it is the combination of # of lipid particles (NMR LDL-P) or Apo B (VAP) and the actual content of the particles.  As an admittedly biased advocate of Atherotech, maker of the VAP test, we tell you the # of particles (Apo B--an international gold standard) and the composition of the particles.  So, if one had a low # of particles by NMR but didn&#039;t know that many of those particles are highly atherogenic particles like Lp(a), one would tell a patient their risk is low.  The VAP test tells me everything i need to know...whereas with other tests, one would have to order other tests to get what one needs to know.

So, it is the number of vehicles, the type of vehicle and the type of passenger that is critical. Particles don&#039;t just take up room as in a traffic jam--they get into the arterial wall and based upon their characteristics, do damage.

And as far as accuracy of a VAP-derived Apo B, it has been validated as accurate and may even be more accurate than immunoturbidometry for technical reasons.  The NMR LDL-P is also a calculation (uses a formula).  Finally, both LabCorp and Quest and all other labs report Apo B

&lt;em&gt;The number of vehicles, the type of vehicles and the type of passengers are simply putative risk factors - no one that I know of has shown that any of these are real (as opposed to putative) risk factors, so why spend a lot of time and money making the tests ever more accurate.  Why not simply get a calcium score, which is a much more direct measure of plaque and quit fooling with putative risk factors?  The literature is full of case reports of people who have low lipid levels and a lot of plaque and people with scary lipid levels with no plaque.  So why not just measure the plaque and be done with it.  An EBT scan for a calcium score can be had for about $400, which is about the same or even less than all the fancy lipid tests.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an expert in cardiovascular risk assessment, prevention and the management of lipids, i agree only partially with Dr Garber&#8217;s metaphor about the # of vehicles rather than the passenger count as being important.  We wish cardiovascular disease and the development of plaque was that simple.  Dr. Garber is entirely correct that the particle # or Apo B reflect risk in a patient more than cholesterol content. However, it is a simplistic notion to believe that it is only particle number or Apo B that determines the damage to the artery wall.  If one had 10 bombers filled with mega-ton weapons, it would do more damage than 20 light planes with unarmed commercial passengers.  The point is this&#8212;it is the combination of # of lipid particles (NMR LDL-P) or Apo B (VAP) and the actual content of the particles.  As an admittedly biased advocate of Atherotech, maker of the VAP test, we tell you the # of particles (Apo B&#8211;an international gold standard) and the composition of the particles.  So, if one had a low # of particles by NMR but didn&#8217;t know that many of those particles are highly atherogenic particles like Lp(a), one would tell a patient their risk is low.  The VAP test tells me everything i need to know&#8230;whereas with other tests, one would have to order other tests to get what one needs to know.</p>
<p>So, it is the number of vehicles, the type of vehicle and the type of passenger that is critical. Particles don&#8217;t just take up room as in a traffic jam&#8211;they get into the arterial wall and based upon their characteristics, do damage.</p>
<p>And as far as accuracy of a VAP-derived Apo B, it has been validated as accurate and may even be more accurate than immunoturbidometry for technical reasons.  The NMR LDL-P is also a calculation (uses a formula).  Finally, both LabCorp and Quest and all other labs report Apo B</p>
<p><em>The number of vehicles, the type of vehicles and the type of passengers are simply putative risk factors &#8211; no one that I know of has shown that any of these are real (as opposed to putative) risk factors, so why spend a lot of time and money making the tests ever more accurate.  Why not simply get a calcium score, which is a much more direct measure of plaque and quit fooling with putative risk factors?  The literature is full of case reports of people who have low lipid levels and a lot of plaque and people with scary lipid levels with no plaque.  So why not just measure the plaque and be done with it.  An EBT scan for a calcium score can be had for about $400, which is about the same or even less than all the fancy lipid tests.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177101</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 19:49:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177101</guid>
		<description>Funny how if I describe my diet as avoiding sugar and eating high quality protein and vegetables no one bats an eye, but the second I call it &quot;low-carb&quot; people start whipping out all of the vampire myths and LF propaganda statements (like how healthy the Chinese are) to try to argue with my choice of eating or stump me!  This goes for medical as well as social situations.  &quot;Low-carb&quot; simply conjures up the fad diet response in people, but &quot;cutting sugar&quot; seems to sound reasonable.  I also don&#039;t consider it a diet (like a previous poster mentioned), and if questioned I simply say I have to eat this way because of migraines.  Invariably, I get an immediate slew of questions about how I eat because the questioner knows someone with migraines that they&#039;d like to tell.  Strange how we humans react to simple changes in presentation.

Dr Mike - you say that Mg Citrate is a salt; does it absorb better than Mg Oxide?  I&#039;ve had good luck with it not causing stomach upset, but may switch if the chelates are substantially better.

&lt;em&gt;Mg Citrate definitely absorbs better than Mg Oxide.  The chelates don&#039;t necessarily absorb better than Mg Citrate, they just don&#039;t compete with other elements for absorption.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how if I describe my diet as avoiding sugar and eating high quality protein and vegetables no one bats an eye, but the second I call it &#8220;low-carb&#8221; people start whipping out all of the vampire myths and LF propaganda statements (like how healthy the Chinese are) to try to argue with my choice of eating or stump me!  This goes for medical as well as social situations.  &#8220;Low-carb&#8221; simply conjures up the fad diet response in people, but &#8220;cutting sugar&#8221; seems to sound reasonable.  I also don&#8217;t consider it a diet (like a previous poster mentioned), and if questioned I simply say I have to eat this way because of migraines.  Invariably, I get an immediate slew of questions about how I eat because the questioner knows someone with migraines that they&#8217;d like to tell.  Strange how we humans react to simple changes in presentation.</p>
<p>Dr Mike &#8211; you say that Mg Citrate is a salt; does it absorb better than Mg Oxide?  I&#8217;ve had good luck with it not causing stomach upset, but may switch if the chelates are substantially better.</p>
<p><em>Mg Citrate definitely absorbs better than Mg Oxide.  The chelates don&#8217;t necessarily absorb better than Mg Citrate, they just don&#8217;t compete with other elements for absorption.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Sherry</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177082</link>
		<dc:creator>Sherry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 10:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177082</guid>
		<description>I have finally decided to lose my current cardiologist and find another one with whom I can talk and advocate for my health.  My current cardiologist has told me, &quot;You&#039;re going to fail&quot;, when I told him I wanted to try losing weight and exercise to lower my blood pressure(which I have done, I might add).  He recently prescribed Vytorin for my high cholesterol and when I asked him about the recent research regarding the drug(in the New England Journal of Medicine), regarding its efficacy and correlations with an increase in cancer, he told me that that was all coming from the New York Times and it had all been de-bunked.  He even put down another cardiologist who was supporting further research of this medicine.  The final stake in his heart was his departing comment for me to stop reading. 

He is probably in his early 30&#039;s.  The medical schools are still turning them out...

I would appreciate any comments.

&lt;em&gt;What can I say?  Your doc sounds all too typical.  It&#039;s a real shame.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have finally decided to lose my current cardiologist and find another one with whom I can talk and advocate for my health.  My current cardiologist has told me, &#8220;You&#8217;re going to fail&#8221;, when I told him I wanted to try losing weight and exercise to lower my blood pressure(which I have done, I might add).  He recently prescribed Vytorin for my high cholesterol and when I asked him about the recent research regarding the drug(in the New England Journal of Medicine), regarding its efficacy and correlations with an increase in cancer, he told me that that was all coming from the New York Times and it had all been de-bunked.  He even put down another cardiologist who was supporting further research of this medicine.  The final stake in his heart was his departing comment for me to stop reading. </p>
<p>He is probably in his early 30&#8217;s.  The medical schools are still turning them out&#8230;</p>
<p>I would appreciate any comments.</p>
<p><em>What can I say?  Your doc sounds all too typical.  It&#8217;s a real shame.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177051</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:44:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177051</guid>
		<description>Noah - that&#039;s exactly what I have to contend with in regards to my fellow student naturopaths:
&quot;whole grain, veggie heavy, lots of chicken and fish, little red meat eating philosophy&quot; and don&#039;t forget the fruit and juice detox.  The one I hate the most is everything in moderation!  The cholesterol one is also annoying - none of them have ever read anything disputing the lipid hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Noah &#8211; that&#8217;s exactly what I have to contend with in regards to my fellow student naturopaths:<br />
&#8220;whole grain, veggie heavy, lots of chicken and fish, little red meat eating philosophy&#8221; and don&#8217;t forget the fruit and juice detox.  The one I hate the most is everything in moderation!  The cholesterol one is also annoying &#8211; none of them have ever read anything disputing the lipid hypothesis.</p>
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		<title>By: Marc W. Garber</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/statins/talking-diet-your-doctor/comment-page-2/#comment-177045</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc W. Garber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 20:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=1647#comment-177045</guid>
		<description>Dr. Mike:

I agree with you that cholesterol is not &quot;the&quot; answer it has been presented to be, and I am not advancing the &quot;cholesterol hypothesis.&quot;  As a point of clarification, tests such as apoB and the NMR LipoProfile test are NOT cholesterol tests, and therefore they do not &quot;slice cholesterol more and more thinly.&quot;  Rather, these tests are direct lipoprotein assays (not direct measurements of the cholesterol inside the lipoproteins, but a direct measurement of the lipoprotein particle numbers themselves).

I agree with you that cholesterol is not a causal agent in atherosclerosis.  There are correlations between cholesterol levels and atherosclerosis, but correlation does not equal causation, and two people with identical cholesterol levels can have VERY different numbers of lipoprotein particles transporting that cholesterol, and VERY different levels of cardiovascular risk.

Furthermore, the correlations between lipids and cardiovascular disease become progressively weaker as lipid levels drop, so using lipid measurements in an attempt to predict and manage cardiovascular risk is especially dicey for people with low levels of LDL-C and non-HDL-C (the two guideline goals of therapy).  The inverse is generally true for HDL-C (although HDL is an extremely complex topic).

The fact remains, however, that when we dissect an atherosclerotic plaque, it&#039;s full of cholesterol.  The ONLY way for cholesterol to penetrate the endothelial lining of the arterial wall is for a lipoprotein particle to carry it inside, and when the number of lipoproteins (especially LDL particles) is high, the risk of this penetration occuring is higher.  A growing number of studies around the world (including some truly enormous ones -i.e. AMORIS followed 175,000 patients for 5 years) have shown that the number of lipoprotein particles is a stronger predictor of cardiovascular endpoints than cholesterol.

So has cholesterol been &quot;the&quot; answer?  No.  Can we do better with lipoproteins?  Yes (which is why guidelines are starting to slowly move towards lipoprotein particle numbers).

Will lipoprotein particle numbers be &quot;the&quot; answer.  No.  Atherosclerosis is a multi-factorial disease, with a host of contributory factors.  But lipoprotein particle numbers DO work better than cholesterol, and I hope we can agree that having tests which allow us to assess and manage cardiovascular risk better than we can with cholesterol tests is a good thing.

Best Regards,

Marc

&lt;em&gt;I didn&#039;t mean to literally slice cholesterol thinner and thinner.  I was using &#039;cholesterol&#039; as a metaphor for the lipid hypothesis.  As far as I&#039;m concerned, lipoproteins are a component of the overall category of lipids.  I know they are proteins, but their job is to transport lipids.  Some factor being a putative risk factor because it correlates with disease is not proof of cause.  Many people with low levels of LDL and low particle numbers develop coronary artery disease.  You tell me how the cholesterol gets there in their lesions.

All I&#039;m saying is that the idea that lipids and their carriers are the causitive factors for heart disease is simply an hypothesis at this point.  When one part of the hypothesis fails - as has the total cholesterol as risk factor part has - then people begin to develop ad hoc hypotheses to try to explain the situation and have it still involve lipids in some way.  I&#039;m not a believer in the lipid hypothesis, so it can be twisted and diced and sliced all you want, and I still won&#039;t believe it.  Not until I see strong evidence that I&#039;m wrong.  And I don&#039;t consider observational studies as strong evidence.

Cheers--

MRE&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Mike:</p>
<p>I agree with you that cholesterol is not &#8220;the&#8221; answer it has been presented to be, and I am not advancing the &#8220;cholesterol hypothesis.&#8221;  As a point of clarification, tests such as apoB and the NMR LipoProfile test are NOT cholesterol tests, and therefore they do not &#8220;slice cholesterol more and more thinly.&#8221;  Rather, these tests are direct lipoprotein assays (not direct measurements of the cholesterol inside the lipoproteins, but a direct measurement of the lipoprotein particle numbers themselves).</p>
<p>I agree with you that cholesterol is not a causal agent in atherosclerosis.  There are correlations between cholesterol levels and atherosclerosis, but correlation does not equal causation, and two people with identical cholesterol levels can have VERY different numbers of lipoprotein particles transporting that cholesterol, and VERY different levels of cardiovascular risk.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the correlations between lipids and cardiovascular disease become progressively weaker as lipid levels drop, so using lipid measurements in an attempt to predict and manage cardiovascular risk is especially dicey for people with low levels of LDL-C and non-HDL-C (the two guideline goals of therapy).  The inverse is generally true for HDL-C (although HDL is an extremely complex topic).</p>
<p>The fact remains, however, that when we dissect an atherosclerotic plaque, it&#8217;s full of cholesterol.  The ONLY way for cholesterol to penetrate the endothelial lining of the arterial wall is for a lipoprotein particle to carry it inside, and when the number of lipoproteins (especially LDL particles) is high, the risk of this penetration occuring is higher.  A growing number of studies around the world (including some truly enormous ones -i.e. AMORIS followed 175,000 patients for 5 years) have shown that the number of lipoprotein particles is a stronger predictor of cardiovascular endpoints than cholesterol.</p>
<p>So has cholesterol been &#8220;the&#8221; answer?  No.  Can we do better with lipoproteins?  Yes (which is why guidelines are starting to slowly move towards lipoprotein particle numbers).</p>
<p>Will lipoprotein particle numbers be &#8220;the&#8221; answer.  No.  Atherosclerosis is a multi-factorial disease, with a host of contributory factors.  But lipoprotein particle numbers DO work better than cholesterol, and I hope we can agree that having tests which allow us to assess and manage cardiovascular risk better than we can with cholesterol tests is a good thing.</p>
<p>Best Regards,</p>
<p>Marc</p>
<p><em>I didn&#8217;t mean to literally slice cholesterol thinner and thinner.  I was using &#8216;cholesterol&#8217; as a metaphor for the lipid hypothesis.  As far as I&#8217;m concerned, lipoproteins are a component of the overall category of lipids.  I know they are proteins, but their job is to transport lipids.  Some factor being a putative risk factor because it correlates with disease is not proof of cause.  Many people with low levels of LDL and low particle numbers develop coronary artery disease.  You tell me how the cholesterol gets there in their lesions.</p>
<p>All I&#8217;m saying is that the idea that lipids and their carriers are the causitive factors for heart disease is simply an hypothesis at this point.  When one part of the hypothesis fails &#8211; as has the total cholesterol as risk factor part has &#8211; then people begin to develop ad hoc hypotheses to try to explain the situation and have it still involve lipids in some way.  I&#8217;m not a believer in the lipid hypothesis, so it can be twisted and diced and sliced all you want, and I still won&#8217;t believe it.  Not until I see strong evidence that I&#8217;m wrong.  And I don&#8217;t consider observational studies as strong evidence.</p>
<p>Cheers&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</em></p>
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