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	<title>Comments on: Low carbers: critical thinkers and a bulwark against illiteracy</title>
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	<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/</link>
	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:44:55 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Trinkwasser</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-210760</link>
		<dc:creator>Trinkwasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 11:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-210760</guid>
		<description>Haven&#039;t read the original paper so I&#039;m hypothesising, but rat chow is usually high carb. So probably what they are doing is adding more protein and more fat to an already high carb diet. This don&#039;t work! See certain similar human research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t read the original paper so I&#8217;m hypothesising, but rat chow is usually high carb. So probably what they are doing is adding more protein and more fat to an already high carb diet. This don&#8217;t work! See certain similar human research.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyn P</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-209788</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyn P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 00:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-209788</guid>
		<description>OK Doc,  help me understand this from Stu&#039;s link:  if eating a high fat and lots of BCAA (meat) beyond daily needs means increasing IR in rats per this study, then are we humans different from rats in this aspect?  When we eat high fat &amp; lots of meat to lose weight, our IR is reduced -- right?  Is it the overeating of either one or the other that causes this effect?  Or is this a rat-only response.  I guess what I&#039;m asking is whether you&#039;ve seen any human studies that suggest this or did you observe it in your practice?  Like Beth, I&#039;d sure hate to be increasing my liver cell IR as I lose weight.  

I understand that daily exercise helps reduce IR, so I faithfully climb on my exercise bike and pedal away for 30-50 mins every day in 2 sessions (easier since I was laidoff -- can I call this a benefit of being laidoff? *G*).  I just started r-lipoic acid @ 50 mg/day to see how my gut likes it (goal is 150-300 mg/day)...had a bad reaction several yrs ago but that was to the mixed R and S form.  I&#039;ve also been talking benfotiamine (300 mg/day) that following 1st 150 mg dropped my bedtime BG by 30 pts and next morning BG by 18 pts...*sigh* hasn&#039;t repeated since...BUT my mood is improved (being laidoff usually makes me seriously depressed yet I&#039;m not) and my systolic is 12 pts lower.

&lt;em&gt;I&#039;ve seen it in practice, and it&#039;s in the medical literature.  Everything you read about rat studies can&#039;t be applied to humans.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Doc,  help me understand this from Stu&#8217;s link:  if eating a high fat and lots of BCAA (meat) beyond daily needs means increasing IR in rats per this study, then are we humans different from rats in this aspect?  When we eat high fat &amp; lots of meat to lose weight, our IR is reduced &#8212; right?  Is it the overeating of either one or the other that causes this effect?  Or is this a rat-only response.  I guess what I&#8217;m asking is whether you&#8217;ve seen any human studies that suggest this or did you observe it in your practice?  Like Beth, I&#8217;d sure hate to be increasing my liver cell IR as I lose weight.  </p>
<p>I understand that daily exercise helps reduce IR, so I faithfully climb on my exercise bike and pedal away for 30-50 mins every day in 2 sessions (easier since I was laidoff &#8212; can I call this a benefit of being laidoff? *G*).  I just started r-lipoic acid @ 50 mg/day to see how my gut likes it (goal is 150-300 mg/day)&#8230;had a bad reaction several yrs ago but that was to the mixed R and S form.  I&#8217;ve also been talking benfotiamine (300 mg/day) that following 1st 150 mg dropped my bedtime BG by 30 pts and next morning BG by 18 pts&#8230;*sigh* hasn&#8217;t repeated since&#8230;BUT my mood is improved (being laidoff usually makes me seriously depressed yet I&#8217;m not) and my systolic is 12 pts lower.</p>
<p><em>I&#8217;ve seen it in practice, and it&#8217;s in the medical literature.  Everything you read about rat studies can&#8217;t be applied to humans.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208814</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208814</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious about the article Stu posted as well.  Is the key w/ protein/fat not being a problem *not* eating beyond satiety?  I have PCOS and respond well to metformin, but am not overweight and don&#039;t technically test positive for insulin resistance.  The fat/protein possibly leading to IR still confuses me.  I know for me, eating fat/protein definitely makes me feel better, but I want to make sure i&#039;m not increasing my IR.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious about the article Stu posted as well.  Is the key w/ protein/fat not being a problem *not* eating beyond satiety?  I have PCOS and respond well to metformin, but am not overweight and don&#8217;t technically test positive for insulin resistance.  The fat/protein possibly leading to IR still confuses me.  I know for me, eating fat/protein definitely makes me feel better, but I want to make sure i&#8217;m not increasing my IR.</p>
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		<title>By: Stu Ward</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208659</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu Ward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 18:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208659</guid>
		<description>I just read this article on Science Daily. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090407130905.htm

&quot;Too Much Protein, Eaten Along With Fat, May Lead To Insulin Resistance&quot;

I understand that they tested rats to see how they responded which obviously would give bogus results, however, along with the &quot;Meat is Deadly&quot; fiasco recently, this study doesn&#039;t really do much for the low-carm community.  What&#039;s your view on the study?

Stu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just read this article on Science Daily. <a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090407130905.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090407130905.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Too Much Protein, Eaten Along With Fat, May Lead To Insulin Resistance&#8221;</p>
<p>I understand that they tested rats to see how they responded which obviously would give bogus results, however, along with the &#8220;Meat is Deadly&#8221; fiasco recently, this study doesn&#8217;t really do much for the low-carm community.  What&#8217;s your view on the study?</p>
<p>Stu</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208474</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Apr 2009 09:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208474</guid>
		<description>It was interesting to me to see that they split off diet and advice books from proper, serious non-fiction books. If asked to name the most important books I&#039;ve ever read, in the sense of the ones that changed my life, I&#039;d cite Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution and The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. Obviously the latter would be classed in the &quot;proper&quot; books list yet they&#039;ve been equally influential to me. And to my thinking, not just my body in the Atkins case! 

I wonder if the compilers think diet books are ephemeral, that they&#039;re the latest trendy thing and once they&#039;re off the list they&#039;ll vanish into oblivion when the next big diet comes along? So that even though they sell in millions, they&#039;re soon forgotten.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was interesting to me to see that they split off diet and advice books from proper, serious non-fiction books. If asked to name the most important books I&#8217;ve ever read, in the sense of the ones that changed my life, I&#8217;d cite Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution and The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins. Obviously the latter would be classed in the &#8220;proper&#8221; books list yet they&#8217;ve been equally influential to me. And to my thinking, not just my body in the Atkins case! </p>
<p>I wonder if the compilers think diet books are ephemeral, that they&#8217;re the latest trendy thing and once they&#8217;re off the list they&#8217;ll vanish into oblivion when the next big diet comes along? So that even though they sell in millions, they&#8217;re soon forgotten.</p>
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		<title>By: Carmen</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208420</link>
		<dc:creator>Carmen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 22:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208420</guid>
		<description>For all that we might be critical thinkers, some of us manage to combine that with a hefty dose of superficiality...  Some low-carb proponents just don&#039;t look very good (I&#039;m flashing on Mary Enig after seeing &quot;Fat Head&quot;), especially when compared to some of the raw food folks...  I agree that low-carb is the way to live - I&#039;ve gone from being a vegan to rendering my own lard - but I not only want to be healthy, I want to look healthy and glowing, too!  Do you have any tips from all the individual adaptations to the low-carb way of life that you&#039;ve come across to share with us?  Thanks for your wonderful blog!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For all that we might be critical thinkers, some of us manage to combine that with a hefty dose of superficiality&#8230;  Some low-carb proponents just don&#8217;t look very good (I&#8217;m flashing on Mary Enig after seeing &#8220;Fat Head&#8221;), especially when compared to some of the raw food folks&#8230;  I agree that low-carb is the way to live &#8211; I&#8217;ve gone from being a vegan to rendering my own lard &#8211; but I not only want to be healthy, I want to look healthy and glowing, too!  Do you have any tips from all the individual adaptations to the low-carb way of life that you&#8217;ve come across to share with us?  Thanks for your wonderful blog!</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208416</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 21:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208416</guid>
		<description>I feel a little pandered to as well, but I do think there&#039;s some truth to what you write.  I&#039;m another fan of John Taylor Gatto and I enjoy John Holt as well.  We are choosing to homeschool our children, not because we have a religious-based opposition to public schools, etc. but because we don&#039;t think that education today produces critical thinkers.  I don&#039;t care as much about what facts my children memorize, as much as I care about my children being able to find good, solid sources of information that they can analyze with a critical eye and then discuss and write about the topic.
My husband is wrapping up a PhD right now in Chemistry.  After a few years in industry, he decided to go back and get his doctorate.  About 2-3 years ago when he was teaching a sophomore/jr. level undergrad chemistry lab, it was amazing to me that his students would actually hand in lab reports without even including a discussion section.  Somehow they couldn&#039;t understand how not bothering (or being capable of?) discussing your results might not warrant an A or B on a lab report.  This isn&#039;t even just a gen chem course.  It is a chemistry course in a major research institution.  Sigh. Are these tomorrow&#039;s future scientists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel a little pandered to as well, but I do think there&#8217;s some truth to what you write.  I&#8217;m another fan of John Taylor Gatto and I enjoy John Holt as well.  We are choosing to homeschool our children, not because we have a religious-based opposition to public schools, etc. but because we don&#8217;t think that education today produces critical thinkers.  I don&#8217;t care as much about what facts my children memorize, as much as I care about my children being able to find good, solid sources of information that they can analyze with a critical eye and then discuss and write about the topic.<br />
My husband is wrapping up a PhD right now in Chemistry.  After a few years in industry, he decided to go back and get his doctorate.  About 2-3 years ago when he was teaching a sophomore/jr. level undergrad chemistry lab, it was amazing to me that his students would actually hand in lab reports without even including a discussion section.  Somehow they couldn&#8217;t understand how not bothering (or being capable of?) discussing your results might not warrant an A or B on a lab report.  This isn&#8217;t even just a gen chem course.  It is a chemistry course in a major research institution.  Sigh. Are these tomorrow&#8217;s future scientists?</p>
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		<title>By: Trinkwasser</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208380</link>
		<dc:creator>Trinkwasser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:50:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208380</guid>
		<description>IMNSHO you have to be pretty intelligent to be as stupid as some people. Think about it, whenever you discover a fact, information or evidence you need to parse it against your current collection of stereotypes, soundytes and memes, then when you find it doesn&#039;t mesh with your current preconceptions you need to develop a plausible explanation as to why it is wrong in order to reject it.

A bit like you do with scentific papers, only in exact reverse.

Two of the most &quot;intelligent&quot; people I know have hardly any academic qualifications between them. One is a company director (and owner), the other is an artist. Both have the ability to see and respond to the world as it actually is and act accordingly, an uncommon skill nowadays.

Taubes&#039; book is called Good Calories Bad Calories in most markets but has been renamed The Diet Delusion in the UK. I wonder how that affects its position on bestseller lists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMNSHO you have to be pretty intelligent to be as stupid as some people. Think about it, whenever you discover a fact, information or evidence you need to parse it against your current collection of stereotypes, soundytes and memes, then when you find it doesn&#8217;t mesh with your current preconceptions you need to develop a plausible explanation as to why it is wrong in order to reject it.</p>
<p>A bit like you do with scentific papers, only in exact reverse.</p>
<p>Two of the most &#8220;intelligent&#8221; people I know have hardly any academic qualifications between them. One is a company director (and owner), the other is an artist. Both have the ability to see and respond to the world as it actually is and act accordingly, an uncommon skill nowadays.</p>
<p>Taubes&#8217; book is called Good Calories Bad Calories in most markets but has been renamed The Diet Delusion in the UK. I wonder how that affects its position on bestseller lists?</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208363</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208363</guid>
		<description>Hm, here&#039;s a thought for you.  Maybe it seems like more smart people read low-carb books because all that protein and fat makes their brains work better?  :)

Before I started experimenting with low-carb (I&#039;m ashamed to say I haven&#039;t made the switch permanent yet), I would have the most horrific mood swings and brain fog.  Once I started it was like being on anti-depressants but without the zombie-ness and I still had my sex drive intact.  (TMI, sorry.)  The smartest animals by IQ, which I have no idea how they test for it, seem to be carnivores or meat-favoring omnivores.  Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, here&#8217;s a thought for you.  Maybe it seems like more smart people read low-carb books because all that protein and fat makes their brains work better?  <img src='http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Before I started experimenting with low-carb (I&#8217;m ashamed to say I haven&#8217;t made the switch permanent yet), I would have the most horrific mood swings and brain fog.  Once I started it was like being on anti-depressants but without the zombie-ness and I still had my sex drive intact.  (TMI, sorry.)  The smartest animals by IQ, which I have no idea how they test for it, seem to be carnivores or meat-favoring omnivores.  Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/low-carb-library/low-carbers-critical-thinkers-and-a-bulwark-against-illiteracy/comment-page-2/#comment-208362</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 06:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=2790#comment-208362</guid>
		<description>Well, don&#039;t be surprised that a socialist would care about whether people are critical thinkers anymore.  I think part of Marx&#039;s original point was that it was stupid to treat the proletariat like unthinking animals because they were/are anything but, and have just as much right to the fruits of their labor as anyone else.  Too bad that got lost in the shuffle.  I don&#039;t think what gets passed off as socialism anymore is usually in any way deserving of the title.  (Command economies are an especial joke.  Too bad it&#039;s not funny.)

I will have to respectfully disagree with your inference that one must be a reader to be a critical thinker.  Critical thinking is a skill anyone can learn no matter what their primary method of receiving information.  We were social animals well before the advent of the written word and you don&#039;t go thousands of years as a social animal if you don&#039;t learn to sort the B.S. from the truth early on.

I think whatever is wrong with society now runs much more deeply than that.  The central problem, as I see it, is that despite our efforts and claims to the contrary, most human beings are concrete thinkers.  We are more likely to believe the evidence of our senses, even when those senses are dulled, than we are to believe statements that we perceive as disconnected from reality.  So the person who believes he has had a personal experience with God is more likely to be religious, and the person who has had a close brush with death more clearly understands that he is mortal.  Before then, reference to either is nothing but empty rhetoric.

Toss in the fact that as social animals we are always looking to someone else to set the example for how we should behave.  I think this is less about small-mindedness or laziness than it is simple instinct, one of the few we have left (or will acknowledge, anyway).

And some of us have gotten smart enough and learned enough by now to be able to manipulate these things.  It&#039;s called &quot;marketing.&quot;  And TV has made this easier than ever.  Think about it.  It&#039;s not just images, it&#039;s moving images.  The people in the moving images might as well be in the same room as you.  Your hundreds-of-thousands-of-years-old brain, which evolved looking at actual, living, breathing, moving people, has no evolutionary experience with images of living, breathing, moving people on the TV or in a movie.  While your intellect may tell you the moving pictures aren&#039;t real, your primitive brain tells you a different story.

Marketing people know this.  That&#039;s how any number of public institutions, from Hollywood to the White House (no matter who&#039;s in it), get away with lying to us.  Until a person has experience with being lied to and screwed over, his default assumption about other people is that they are trustworthy, because we couldn&#039;t be social animals if we didn&#039;t first assume the best about one another.  Think about who falls for Hollywood and government crap.  It&#039;s not the cynics.

I wouldn&#039;t be so hard on folks who are ignorant.  They simply don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;know.&lt;/i&gt;  God knows that even with everything I have learned I still sometimes wish with all my might that the &quot;experts&quot; were right about something I know they&#039;re wrong about.  It can be hard to let go and rely on yourself when people who promised to be there for you disappoint you again and again.  I would guess some of these ignorant people are also frightened of the unknown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, don&#8217;t be surprised that a socialist would care about whether people are critical thinkers anymore.  I think part of Marx&#8217;s original point was that it was stupid to treat the proletariat like unthinking animals because they were/are anything but, and have just as much right to the fruits of their labor as anyone else.  Too bad that got lost in the shuffle.  I don&#8217;t think what gets passed off as socialism anymore is usually in any way deserving of the title.  (Command economies are an especial joke.  Too bad it&#8217;s not funny.)</p>
<p>I will have to respectfully disagree with your inference that one must be a reader to be a critical thinker.  Critical thinking is a skill anyone can learn no matter what their primary method of receiving information.  We were social animals well before the advent of the written word and you don&#8217;t go thousands of years as a social animal if you don&#8217;t learn to sort the B.S. from the truth early on.</p>
<p>I think whatever is wrong with society now runs much more deeply than that.  The central problem, as I see it, is that despite our efforts and claims to the contrary, most human beings are concrete thinkers.  We are more likely to believe the evidence of our senses, even when those senses are dulled, than we are to believe statements that we perceive as disconnected from reality.  So the person who believes he has had a personal experience with God is more likely to be religious, and the person who has had a close brush with death more clearly understands that he is mortal.  Before then, reference to either is nothing but empty rhetoric.</p>
<p>Toss in the fact that as social animals we are always looking to someone else to set the example for how we should behave.  I think this is less about small-mindedness or laziness than it is simple instinct, one of the few we have left (or will acknowledge, anyway).</p>
<p>And some of us have gotten smart enough and learned enough by now to be able to manipulate these things.  It&#8217;s called &#8220;marketing.&#8221;  And TV has made this easier than ever.  Think about it.  It&#8217;s not just images, it&#8217;s moving images.  The people in the moving images might as well be in the same room as you.  Your hundreds-of-thousands-of-years-old brain, which evolved looking at actual, living, breathing, moving people, has no evolutionary experience with images of living, breathing, moving people on the TV or in a movie.  While your intellect may tell you the moving pictures aren&#8217;t real, your primitive brain tells you a different story.</p>
<p>Marketing people know this.  That&#8217;s how any number of public institutions, from Hollywood to the White House (no matter who&#8217;s in it), get away with lying to us.  Until a person has experience with being lied to and screwed over, his default assumption about other people is that they are trustworthy, because we couldn&#8217;t be social animals if we didn&#8217;t first assume the best about one another.  Think about who falls for Hollywood and government crap.  It&#8217;s not the cynics.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t be so hard on folks who are ignorant.  They simply don&#8217;t <i>know.</i>  God knows that even with everything I have learned I still sometimes wish with all my might that the &#8220;experts&#8221; were right about something I know they&#8217;re wrong about.  It can be hard to let go and rely on yourself when people who promised to be there for you disappoint you again and again.  I would guess some of these ignorant people are also frightened of the unknown.</p>
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