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	<title>Comments on: Saturated fat debate</title>
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	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
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		<title>By: Keenan</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-46481</link>
		<dc:creator>Keenan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-46481</guid>
		<description>I should add that they were only spot on about the inositol. The rest of the post seemed a bit ridiculous and the whole thing was completely incoherent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should add that they were only spot on about the inositol. The rest of the post seemed a bit ridiculous and the whole thing was completely incoherent.</p>
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		<title>By: Keenan</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-46480</link>
		<dc:creator>Keenan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 14:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-46480</guid>
		<description>Whoever posted the bit about inositol and anxiety was spot-on. I couldn&#039;t quite follow where the post went from fat to inositol, but between a low-carb diet and 5-7g/day of inositol supplementation, my panic attacks have been almost nonexistent.

When I cheat, though, I get them bad... exactly 2 nights later.  Perhaps the serotonin drop off that follows the spike?

&lt;em&gt;Hi Keenan--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Thanks for relating your experience.  I guess I&#039;ll need to read up a little on inositol.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whoever posted the bit about inositol and anxiety was spot-on. I couldn&#8217;t quite follow where the post went from fat to inositol, but between a low-carb diet and 5-7g/day of inositol supplementation, my panic attacks have been almost nonexistent.</p>
<p>When I cheat, though, I get them bad&#8230; exactly 2 nights later.  Perhaps the serotonin drop off that follows the spike?</p>
<p><em>Hi Keenan&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>Thanks for relating your experience.  I guess I&#8217;ll need to read up a little on inositol.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Razwell</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-36569</link>
		<dc:creator>Razwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-36569</guid>
		<description>Dr. Eades

I have ALWAYS questioned the anti saturated fat campaign , just from the way a low saturated fat meal made me feel. Very hungry . bad mood , completely unsatisfied. I ALWAYS felt like crap after skim milk

On the other hand berries and red meat , grass fed (the way nature intended with the n3 n6 ratios balanced) has  me feeling great

I always felt like  crap after skim milk.

I can&#039;t believe anyone would be taken by this type of a &quot;grasping  at straws attempt to explain the cause of CHD&quot;. Nature sure does not evolve to kill itself off. Saturated fat was available to our ancestors and they sure ate it. Along with leafy greens nuts fruits.

To rail against a natural and healthy  food source  is beyond dumb. I mean its basic  intelligence example  - do Lipid Hypothesis proponents  really think Bear Grylles would survive in the wilderness with no saturated fat and protein? Lipid Hypothesis proponents INVENT &quot;paradoxes&quot;  and ignore the evidence of the Maasai,  Dinkas , Samburu ,  French,  Inuits , Tokeluans and many more .

Take Care,

Razwell

&lt;em&gt;Hi Razwell--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;You&#039;re preaching to the choir.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Eades</p>
<p>I have ALWAYS questioned the anti saturated fat campaign , just from the way a low saturated fat meal made me feel. Very hungry . bad mood , completely unsatisfied. I ALWAYS felt like crap after skim milk</p>
<p>On the other hand berries and red meat , grass fed (the way nature intended with the n3 n6 ratios balanced) has  me feeling great</p>
<p>I always felt like  crap after skim milk.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe anyone would be taken by this type of a &#8220;grasping  at straws attempt to explain the cause of CHD&#8221;. Nature sure does not evolve to kill itself off. Saturated fat was available to our ancestors and they sure ate it. Along with leafy greens nuts fruits.</p>
<p>To rail against a natural and healthy  food source  is beyond dumb. I mean its basic  intelligence example  &#8211; do Lipid Hypothesis proponents  really think Bear Grylles would survive in the wilderness with no saturated fat and protein? Lipid Hypothesis proponents INVENT &#8220;paradoxes&#8221;  and ignore the evidence of the Maasai,  Dinkas , Samburu ,  French,  Inuits , Tokeluans and many more .</p>
<p>Take Care,</p>
<p>Razwell</p>
<p><em>Hi Razwell&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>You&#8217;re preaching to the choir.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-32739</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 22:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-32739</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the analysis!

I found this link through the fasting yahoo group. Apparently, it references an article in the same issue, December 2006.  I&#039;ve been following a 19-hour fasting plan and was rather dismayed to read about IGF levels increasing with low carb, as I follow very low carb myself, under about 40 grams per day.  Any comments you have about this research would be welcome! Again, it appears to be referencing the same journal of clinic nutrition, December 2006.

Thanks.

http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/536486.html

&lt;em&gt;Hi Jill--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;A couple of things...&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;First, this report states that high levels of IGF-1 increase the growth of cancers that are already in place.  At no point does it posit that IGF-1 causes the cancers in the first place.  I would bet that a good quality low-carb diet, especially one followed on an intermittent fasting schedule would reduce the incidence of cancer formation, so the levels of IGF-1 are immaterial.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Second, there is free IGF-1 and bound IGF-1.  And there is a world of difference between the two.  Free IGF-1 is the active hormone whereas bound IGF-1 in inactive.  When one measures total IGF-1 levels one gets the sum of both the free and the bound hormone, which tells very little about what&#039;s going on.  I haven&#039;t looked at this paper in a while (and don&#039;t have access to it right now since I&#039;m traveling), but as I recall the researchers measured total IGF-1, not free IGF-1.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Chronically elevated insulin levels as are found in those following high-carb diets cause the liver to make LESS IGFBP (IGF binding protein), meaning that there will usually be more free IGF circulating since there is less IGFBP for it to bind to.  This can lead to the situation where the total IGF-1 is low, but the free IGF-1 is high.  A low-carb diet that leads to less insulin drives the liver to synthesis MORE IGFBP, which means more bound and less free IGF-1.  This is a condition in which the total IGF-1 is high, but the free (or active) IGF-1 is actually low.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I hope this clarifies things.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the analysis!</p>
<p>I found this link through the fasting yahoo group. Apparently, it references an article in the same issue, December 2006.  I&#8217;ve been following a 19-hour fasting plan and was rather dismayed to read about IGF levels increasing with low carb, as I follow very low carb myself, under about 40 grams per day.  Any comments you have about this research would be welcome! Again, it appears to be referencing the same journal of clinic nutrition, December 2006.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/536486.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hon.ch/News/HSN/536486.html</a></p>
<p><em>Hi Jill&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>A couple of things&#8230;</em></p>
<p><em>First, this report states that high levels of IGF-1 increase the growth of cancers that are already in place.  At no point does it posit that IGF-1 causes the cancers in the first place.  I would bet that a good quality low-carb diet, especially one followed on an intermittent fasting schedule would reduce the incidence of cancer formation, so the levels of IGF-1 are immaterial.</em></p>
<p><em>Second, there is free IGF-1 and bound IGF-1.  And there is a world of difference between the two.  Free IGF-1 is the active hormone whereas bound IGF-1 in inactive.  When one measures total IGF-1 levels one gets the sum of both the free and the bound hormone, which tells very little about what&#8217;s going on.  I haven&#8217;t looked at this paper in a while (and don&#8217;t have access to it right now since I&#8217;m traveling), but as I recall the researchers measured total IGF-1, not free IGF-1.</em></p>
<p><em>Chronically elevated insulin levels as are found in those following high-carb diets cause the liver to make LESS IGFBP (IGF binding protein), meaning that there will usually be more free IGF circulating since there is less IGFBP for it to bind to.  This can lead to the situation where the total IGF-1 is low, but the free IGF-1 is high.  A low-carb diet that leads to less insulin drives the liver to synthesis MORE IGFBP, which means more bound and less free IGF-1.  This is a condition in which the total IGF-1 is high, but the free (or active) IGF-1 is actually low.</em></p>
<p><em>I hope this clarifies things.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Liam O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-25438</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 00:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-25438</guid>
		<description>I am of the view that all this preoccupation with cholesterol has more to do with business than good science, and sad to say our conventional Doctors are going along with it.  Best practice...who sets the agenda for best practice..it seems to me it is big pharma.  I am also surprised that there is so little discussion here of the research that has been done over the decades concerning the proven relationship between vitamin c deficiency and atherosclerosis.  The logic of this relationship, and the vitamin c status of those who do not consume mega doses of Vitamin c is inescapable, and to me and many others lies at the root cause of chd.  Why do so many make a life&#039;s preoccupation of analysing the cholesterol theory, when the much more rewarding vitamin c connection is there to very probably resolve the issue.

I have researched the Vitamin C connection for the past 5 years and believing in it have followed the Linus Pauling recommendations and have taken between 10 and 20 gms per day together with 4 gm l-lysine  and 1gm l-proline.  I do also  take a broad spectrum of other suppliment nutrients, following a MI in Feb. 2002.  Blood tests, ecg, and echocardiogram confirmed.  Angiogram showed complete blockage at bottom of LAD and 40% mid vessel in RCA.  Over a period of 1 - 2 years all signs of MI resolved and I am now told following echo and ecg that my heart is normal function and that performance at ecg is that of a young fit person (14 mins 40 secs. standard Bruce test) with no deviations.  I am 63 yrs. next month.  I was initially on the usual meds. of Beta blocker, Ace Inhibitor, Plavix, Aspirin, Lipitor (10mg).  All the meds. were the minimal doses.  I have been taken off everything except the 75mg of Aspirin and the 10 mg of Lipitor.  My blood pressure off BP meds. is now typically between 110/70 and 120/80 ish.  Doctors have expressed surprise at the recovery made and my current status as being untypical, but only show mild interest when I tell them how I believe it was achieved.  I despair sometimes, but keep propounding.  Please give some time to studying this most probable cause of CHD and, if you become convinced as I, to promoting knowledge of it.

&lt;em&gt;Hi Liam--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I&#039;m happy that your coronary artery disease has improved, although it was unclear in  your comment whether you had had a bypass, a stent, angioplasty or medical therapy only.  I have spent a fair amount of time studying the vitamin C/heart disease issue.  As of yet, I&#039;m not as convinced as you are of its efficacy.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am of the view that all this preoccupation with cholesterol has more to do with business than good science, and sad to say our conventional Doctors are going along with it.  Best practice&#8230;who sets the agenda for best practice..it seems to me it is big pharma.  I am also surprised that there is so little discussion here of the research that has been done over the decades concerning the proven relationship between vitamin c deficiency and atherosclerosis.  The logic of this relationship, and the vitamin c status of those who do not consume mega doses of Vitamin c is inescapable, and to me and many others lies at the root cause of chd.  Why do so many make a life&#8217;s preoccupation of analysing the cholesterol theory, when the much more rewarding vitamin c connection is there to very probably resolve the issue.</p>
<p>I have researched the Vitamin C connection for the past 5 years and believing in it have followed the Linus Pauling recommendations and have taken between 10 and 20 gms per day together with 4 gm l-lysine  and 1gm l-proline.  I do also  take a broad spectrum of other suppliment nutrients, following a MI in Feb. 2002.  Blood tests, ecg, and echocardiogram confirmed.  Angiogram showed complete blockage at bottom of LAD and 40% mid vessel in RCA.  Over a period of 1 &#8211; 2 years all signs of MI resolved and I am now told following echo and ecg that my heart is normal function and that performance at ecg is that of a young fit person (14 mins 40 secs. standard Bruce test) with no deviations.  I am 63 yrs. next month.  I was initially on the usual meds. of Beta blocker, Ace Inhibitor, Plavix, Aspirin, Lipitor (10mg).  All the meds. were the minimal doses.  I have been taken off everything except the 75mg of Aspirin and the 10 mg of Lipitor.  My blood pressure off BP meds. is now typically between 110/70 and 120/80 ish.  Doctors have expressed surprise at the recovery made and my current status as being untypical, but only show mild interest when I tell them how I believe it was achieved.  I despair sometimes, but keep propounding.  Please give some time to studying this most probable cause of CHD and, if you become convinced as I, to promoting knowledge of it.</p>
<p><em>Hi Liam&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>I&#8217;m happy that your coronary artery disease has improved, although it was unclear in  your comment whether you had had a bypass, a stent, angioplasty or medical therapy only.  I have spent a fair amount of time studying the vitamin C/heart disease issue.  As of yet, I&#8217;m not as convinced as you are of its efficacy.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Dr Rob Peers</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-22643</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Rob Peers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Apr 2007 11:42:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-22643</guid>
		<description>I have seen people die of heart disease. I believe it must have a cause. The current debate about dietary fat and cholesterol is very welcome, because it may show that what really counts is oxidized LDL, not the absolute level of native LDL.

Has anyone heard of Sir Harry Himsworth, who was the first to show a strong link between sat fats and diabetes, way back in 1936? The huge historic rise in sat and trans-fat intake in industrial nations was noted by an astute Oxford biochemist, Dr Hugh Sinclair, who was aware of Himsworth&#039;s findings, and who left the world a simple formula that explains chronic disease in the West.

In his landmark letter to The Lancet in 1956, Sinclair proposed that a high dietary ratio of [Sat + Trans] to Essential Fatty Acids (EFA) might cause a vital deficiency of EFA in cell membranes throughout the body, including mitochondrial membranes.

His ratio, also known the other way around, as the Poly/Sat, or P/S ratio, is rather clever, because it explains how fatty diet can oxidize LDL (without raising total LDL very much), and also oxidize the Good Guy HDL, rendering the latter dysfunctional and dangerous, as well as more abundant!

What causes this crucial oxidation in vascular disease? Sinclair&#039;s mitochondrial membranes, rendered EFA-deficient by fatty diet, are the most likely source of this oxidation, because EFA deficiency causes respiratory uncoupling in mitochondria--a potent source of superoxide free radicals and hydrogen peroxide, which easily oxidize lipoproteins, and also promote vascular inflammation.

Those who (quite rightly) question the importance of dietary fat in heart disease must remind themselves that fat intake, especially from between-meal and late-night snacks, is seriously underestimated by most &quot;Free Range Liars&quot;!

Animal experiments show quite clearly that fatty diet causes insulin resistance, reduced membrane unsaturation, raised glucose and insulin, increased triglycerides and blood pressure, obesity and inflammation.

Sinclair&#039;s cell membrane hypothesis, when applied to pregnancy, also explains the curious syndrome of chronic anxiety, Metabolic Syndrome and Deadly Lipid Triad, seen in 20-30% of Westerners. Fatty maternal diet (low P/S Ratio) in pregnancy causes gestational diabetes (or subclinical pre-diabetes), which are known causes of shyness (anxiety disorder) in the offspring.

At least half of all Type 2 Diabetics and heart patients have this syndrome, showing as anxiety, visceral obesity, hypertension, glucose intolerance, and Deadly Lipid Triad (low HDL, small dense LDL, raised trigs).

These are the ones who often simply drop dead, from anxiety-induced lethal arrhythmias; if they live and reach hospital, they will be noted as coronary cases whose total cholesterol was normal or only slightly raised--thereby starting a great argument.

It is quite possible that such anxious folks  do badly on low-fat, high-carb diets, which may raise their trigs even more. But their anxiety drives them to over-eat sweet fatty foods like chocolate, pastries and cakes, so in practice their hi-carbs are usually hi-fat too.

What these folks need is a quick fix for their anxiety and their binge-eating, which will also cure the Deadly Lipid Triad. One simple molecule will do all this--the simple glucose isomer Inositol, abundant in all seeds, whole grains, nuts and legumes, and also found in citrus and rock melon.

Inositol magically reverses anxiety by inhibiting Serotonin 2A receptors in the brain stress circuits, thereby stopping stress-related over-eating; and it raises HDL, and lowers trigs, by lowering peripheral stress hormone activity (less cortisol and noradrenaline).

The world needs more Psycholipidologists, who will treat calm folks eating fatty diet, with a simple low-fat diet; but who will detect anxious cases (&quot;Were you a shy child?&quot;), and treat their Deadly Lipid Triad, their weight problem and their anxiety--all in one Big Hit--by recommending a low-fat, grain- and legume-rich diet. Problem solved!

&lt;em&gt;I wouldn&#039;t say the problem is solved all that categorically.  In fact I don&#039;t think a low-fat, grain- and legume-rich diet will solve the problem at all.  And I suspect that all the speculation on oxidized LDL is simply another ad hoc hypothesis to somehow salvage the lipid hypothesis. &lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I do agree that stress is a major cause of heart disease and should always be considered as a causative force.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen people die of heart disease. I believe it must have a cause. The current debate about dietary fat and cholesterol is very welcome, because it may show that what really counts is oxidized LDL, not the absolute level of native LDL.</p>
<p>Has anyone heard of Sir Harry Himsworth, who was the first to show a strong link between sat fats and diabetes, way back in 1936? The huge historic rise in sat and trans-fat intake in industrial nations was noted by an astute Oxford biochemist, Dr Hugh Sinclair, who was aware of Himsworth&#8217;s findings, and who left the world a simple formula that explains chronic disease in the West.</p>
<p>In his landmark letter to The Lancet in 1956, Sinclair proposed that a high dietary ratio of [Sat + Trans] to Essential Fatty Acids (EFA) might cause a vital deficiency of EFA in cell membranes throughout the body, including mitochondrial membranes.</p>
<p>His ratio, also known the other way around, as the Poly/Sat, or P/S ratio, is rather clever, because it explains how fatty diet can oxidize LDL (without raising total LDL very much), and also oxidize the Good Guy HDL, rendering the latter dysfunctional and dangerous, as well as more abundant!</p>
<p>What causes this crucial oxidation in vascular disease? Sinclair&#8217;s mitochondrial membranes, rendered EFA-deficient by fatty diet, are the most likely source of this oxidation, because EFA deficiency causes respiratory uncoupling in mitochondria&#8211;a potent source of superoxide free radicals and hydrogen peroxide, which easily oxidize lipoproteins, and also promote vascular inflammation.</p>
<p>Those who (quite rightly) question the importance of dietary fat in heart disease must remind themselves that fat intake, especially from between-meal and late-night snacks, is seriously underestimated by most &#8220;Free Range Liars&#8221;!</p>
<p>Animal experiments show quite clearly that fatty diet causes insulin resistance, reduced membrane unsaturation, raised glucose and insulin, increased triglycerides and blood pressure, obesity and inflammation.</p>
<p>Sinclair&#8217;s cell membrane hypothesis, when applied to pregnancy, also explains the curious syndrome of chronic anxiety, Metabolic Syndrome and Deadly Lipid Triad, seen in 20-30% of Westerners. Fatty maternal diet (low P/S Ratio) in pregnancy causes gestational diabetes (or subclinical pre-diabetes), which are known causes of shyness (anxiety disorder) in the offspring.</p>
<p>At least half of all Type 2 Diabetics and heart patients have this syndrome, showing as anxiety, visceral obesity, hypertension, glucose intolerance, and Deadly Lipid Triad (low HDL, small dense LDL, raised trigs).</p>
<p>These are the ones who often simply drop dead, from anxiety-induced lethal arrhythmias; if they live and reach hospital, they will be noted as coronary cases whose total cholesterol was normal or only slightly raised&#8211;thereby starting a great argument.</p>
<p>It is quite possible that such anxious folks  do badly on low-fat, high-carb diets, which may raise their trigs even more. But their anxiety drives them to over-eat sweet fatty foods like chocolate, pastries and cakes, so in practice their hi-carbs are usually hi-fat too.</p>
<p>What these folks need is a quick fix for their anxiety and their binge-eating, which will also cure the Deadly Lipid Triad. One simple molecule will do all this&#8211;the simple glucose isomer Inositol, abundant in all seeds, whole grains, nuts and legumes, and also found in citrus and rock melon.</p>
<p>Inositol magically reverses anxiety by inhibiting Serotonin 2A receptors in the brain stress circuits, thereby stopping stress-related over-eating; and it raises HDL, and lowers trigs, by lowering peripheral stress hormone activity (less cortisol and noradrenaline).</p>
<p>The world needs more Psycholipidologists, who will treat calm folks eating fatty diet, with a simple low-fat diet; but who will detect anxious cases (&#8220;Were you a shy child?&#8221;), and treat their Deadly Lipid Triad, their weight problem and their anxiety&#8211;all in one Big Hit&#8211;by recommending a low-fat, grain- and legume-rich diet. Problem solved!</p>
<p><em>I wouldn&#8217;t say the problem is solved all that categorically.  In fact I don&#8217;t think a low-fat, grain- and legume-rich diet will solve the problem at all.  And I suspect that all the speculation on oxidized LDL is simply another ad hoc hypothesis to somehow salvage the lipid hypothesis. </em></p>
<p><em>I do agree that stress is a major cause of heart disease and should always be considered as a causative force.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Toby</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-18054</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2007 22:45:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-18054</guid>
		<description>Even the Ads by gooooooooogle (top left) are in on the act!!

But seriously... it seems all is clear to those who look for the real truth as in the letters above.
Is there any research coming out of the knowledge that there is little useful benefit of cholesterol levels and CHD, in terms of:
a) what IS increasing CHD in middle aged men in western cultures? and
b) just how bad are polyunsaturated (+/- hydrogenation) fats that have become so integrated into supposed &#039;healthy&#039; living over the past half century or so?

Like your work, btw.

Toby

&lt;em&gt;Hi Toby--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Sorry it&#039;s taken me so long to post this--you got caught up in my spam filter, so I just found your comment today.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;First, I don&#039;t really think CHD is increasing.  Deaths from CHD are falling, but CHD is kind of holding its own.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Second, I think polyunsaturated fats of the omega-6 variety are dreadful in the amounts people typically consume today; trans fats are even worse. We don&#039;t need any trans fats (of the commercially prepared variety--some of the naturally occurring ones, CLA, for instance, are actually good for us), but we do need a little omega-6.  Just not anywhere near the amounts we&#039;re getting today.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even the Ads by gooooooooogle (top left) are in on the act!!</p>
<p>But seriously&#8230; it seems all is clear to those who look for the real truth as in the letters above.<br />
Is there any research coming out of the knowledge that there is little useful benefit of cholesterol levels and CHD, in terms of:<br />
a) what IS increasing CHD in middle aged men in western cultures? and<br />
b) just how bad are polyunsaturated (+/- hydrogenation) fats that have become so integrated into supposed &#8216;healthy&#8217; living over the past half century or so?</p>
<p>Like your work, btw.</p>
<p>Toby</p>
<p><em>Hi Toby&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>Sorry it&#8217;s taken me so long to post this&#8211;you got caught up in my spam filter, so I just found your comment today.</em></p>
<p><em>First, I don&#8217;t really think CHD is increasing.  Deaths from CHD are falling, but CHD is kind of holding its own.</em></p>
<p><em>Second, I think polyunsaturated fats of the omega-6 variety are dreadful in the amounts people typically consume today; trans fats are even worse. We don&#8217;t need any trans fats (of the commercially prepared variety&#8211;some of the naturally occurring ones, CLA, for instance, are actually good for us), but we do need a little omega-6.  Just not anywhere near the amounts we&#8217;re getting today.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: PubMed Diver</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-8510</link>
		<dc:creator>PubMed Diver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 01:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-8510</guid>
		<description>The effectiveness of statins seemingly lends strong support to the standard picture of the role of cholesterol in coronary disease. Indeed (continuing with links to PubMed abstracts),
&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=12486412&amp;dopt=Abstract&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Statins, therefore, have unequivocally shown the importance of cholesterol lowering in the prevention of morbidity and mortality due to coronary disease.&quot; (Am Heart J. 2002)&lt;/a&gt;
And there you have it, and stated with certitude. However, just offhand, I&#039;d thought that the promptness of mortality reduction in response to statins would be odd, for an intervention that merely slows a decades-long process of accumulation. And indeed, this turns up:
&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=15853754&amp;dopt=Abstract&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;The effectiveness and rapidity of statin-induced decreases in coronary events led to the speculation that statins possess cholesterol-independent effects... we describe the numerous beneficial pleiotropic effects of statins that could modulate atherogenesis.&quot; (Curr Drug Targets Cardiovasc Haematol Disord. 2005)&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;[H]ave unequivocally shown the importance of cholesterol&quot;? Ooops. Further:
&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;dopt=Abstract&amp;list_uids=12010563&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;...the demonstration that statins can inhibit inflammation and encourage angiogenesis offers other possibilities for action.&quot; (Arthritis Res. 2002)&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&amp;db=PubMed&amp;list_uids=16034478&amp;dopt=Abstract&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Statins were originally developed as lipid-lowering drugs... statins may provide beneficial effects outside of reductions in low-density lipoprotein and triglycerides.&quot; (Drug News Perspect. 2005)&lt;/a&gt;
So, &quot;statins &lt;em&gt;may&lt;/em&gt; provide&quot; additional beneficial effects? This is a very cautious statement, given the repeated documentation of their anti-inflammatory effects.
If the statin data gives support to the standard picture of the role of cholesterol, that support is surprisingly weak, and not just in a statistical sense, but in the deeper sense of suffering from enormous and seemingly inescapable confounding effects.
By the way, aside from their rare but serious side effects, and the evident confusion about their mode of action, what is wrong with liberal prescription of statins?

&lt;em&gt;Hi PubMed Diver--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;What&#039;s wrong with liberal prescription of statins, eh.  Only that they are raising the cost of health care to us all.  Statins are extremely expensive - about $1300-$1400 per year - and most people who take them have drug cards as part of their insurance.  These increased expenses run all of our insurance rates up.  And the &#039;rare&#039; side effects create more medical expenses that add to the burden.  All this could be justified if it reduced the all cause morbidity and mortality, but it doesn&#039;t.  In only serves to cost us all more money for which we get very, very little in return.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The effectiveness of statins seemingly lends strong support to the standard picture of the role of cholesterol in coronary disease. Indeed (continuing with links to PubMed abstracts),<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&#038;db=PubMed&#038;list_uids=12486412&#038;dopt=Abstract" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Statins, therefore, have unequivocally shown the importance of cholesterol lowering in the prevention of morbidity and mortality due to coronary disease.&#8221; (Am Heart J. 2002)</a><br />
And there you have it, and stated with certitude. However, just offhand, I&#8217;d thought that the promptness of mortality reduction in response to statins would be odd, for an intervention that merely slows a decades-long process of accumulation. And indeed, this turns up:<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&#038;db=PubMed&#038;list_uids=15853754&#038;dopt=Abstract" rel="nofollow">&#8220;The effectiveness and rapidity of statin-induced decreases in coronary events led to the speculation that statins possess cholesterol-independent effects&#8230; we describe the numerous beneficial pleiotropic effects of statins that could modulate atherogenesis.&#8221; (Curr Drug Targets Cardiovasc Haematol Disord. 2005)</a><br />
&#8220;[H]ave unequivocally shown the importance of cholesterol&#8221;? Ooops. Further:<br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&#038;db=PubMed&#038;dopt=Abstract&#038;list_uids=12010563" rel="nofollow">&#8220;&#8230;the demonstration that statins can inhibit inflammation and encourage angiogenesis offers other possibilities for action.&#8221; (Arthritis Res. 2002)</a><br />
<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&#038;db=PubMed&#038;list_uids=16034478&#038;dopt=Abstract" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Statins were originally developed as lipid-lowering drugs&#8230; statins may provide beneficial effects outside of reductions in low-density lipoprotein and triglycerides.&#8221; (Drug News Perspect. 2005)</a><br />
So, &#8220;statins <em>may</em> provide&#8221; additional beneficial effects? This is a very cautious statement, given the repeated documentation of their anti-inflammatory effects.<br />
If the statin data gives support to the standard picture of the role of cholesterol, that support is surprisingly weak, and not just in a statistical sense, but in the deeper sense of suffering from enormous and seemingly inescapable confounding effects.<br />
By the way, aside from their rare but serious side effects, and the evident confusion about their mode of action, what is wrong with liberal prescription of statins?</p>
<p><em>Hi PubMed Diver&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>What&#8217;s wrong with liberal prescription of statins, eh.  Only that they are raising the cost of health care to us all.  Statins are extremely expensive &#8211; about $1300-$1400 per year &#8211; and most people who take them have drug cards as part of their insurance.  These increased expenses run all of our insurance rates up.  And the &#8216;rare&#8217; side effects create more medical expenses that add to the burden.  All this could be justified if it reduced the all cause morbidity and mortality, but it doesn&#8217;t.  In only serves to cost us all more money for which we get very, very little in return.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-7124</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jan 2007 14:28:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-7124</guid>
		<description>Pre-orders are now being taken for Gary Taubes book, to be titled &quot;The Quality of Calories: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom on Diet, Weight Control, and Disease.&quot;  I kind of liked the &quot;Big Fat Lie&quot; title better :-)

Release date is September 18, 2007.  I was hoping for something sooner, but better late than never.  Here&#039;s the &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9781400040780&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link to the publisher&#039;s site&lt;/a&gt;.

Dave

&lt;em&gt;Hi Dave--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I&#039;ve been involved in an intense email exchange with Gary over this title.  I don&#039;t like it, and I don&#039;t think he particularly does either.  Once you read the book, though, the title makes more sense.  But I still don&#039;t like it.  I could have been so much better.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Best--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pre-orders are now being taken for Gary Taubes book, to be titled &#8220;The Quality of Calories: Challenging the Conventional Wisdom on Diet, Weight Control, and Disease.&#8221;  I kind of liked the &#8220;Big Fat Lie&#8221; title better <img src='http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Release date is September 18, 2007.  I was hoping for something sooner, but better late than never.  Here&#8217;s the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=9781400040780" rel="nofollow">Link to the publisher&#8217;s site</a>.</p>
<p>Dave</p>
<p><em>Hi Dave&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>I&#8217;ve been involved in an intense email exchange with Gary over this title.  I don&#8217;t like it, and I don&#8217;t think he particularly does either.  Once you read the book, though, the title makes more sense.  But I still don&#8217;t like it.  I could have been so much better.</em></p>
<p><em>Best&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/lipid-hypothesis/saturated-fat-debate/#comment-3915</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Dec 2006 17:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=345#comment-3915</guid>
		<description>Many thanks to Dr. Ravnskov for the reply.  I suspected as much, but never would have found the time to dig into the topic in detail.  While I was looking for an answer to the underlying cause for the supposed sat. fat/cholesterol connection, I could find nothing.  Odder yet, in papers discussing (in incredibly gory detail) the various aspects of LDL and its putative effects on CHD, there is NO mention of the mechanism by which cholesterol might be raised by diet.

I&#039;m sure somebody talks about it somewhere, but I couldn&#039;t find it (admittedly, I didn&#039;t look that hard, especially after reading Dr. Ravnskov&#039;s &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
&quot;The Cholesterol Myths&quot;&lt;/a&gt;).  After 50 years, you think some progress would have been made on this front; or, you&#039;d think the community at large would have put it together that maybe the hypothesis was wrong in the first place.

It&#039;s going to be very interesting if the research decribed in &lt;a rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; href=&quot;http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061226162143.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;
this article&lt;/a&gt; holds water.  I think it would be immensely ironic if low carb made it into the nutritional and legislative mainstream because a direct cause/effect relationship could be established between high carbohydrate intake and increased cholesterol level.  Even more irony to be found if it is realized that high cholesterol wasn&#039;t the culprit in the first place, but rather CHD was caused by damage do to high blood sugar.

GO BRONCOS!

Dave

&lt;em&gt;Hi Dave--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I&#039;ve got the Nature paper that the ScienceDaily article discusses, but I haven&#039;t had time to read it in depth.  When I do, I&#039;ll probably post on it if it really has merit.  I never trust journalistic interpretations of scientific papers.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;I&#039;m in an interesting situation.  I have my money on San Francisco +10, but I want the Broncos to win.  So, root for a Bronco win and a SF cover.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Happy New Year!&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks to Dr. Ravnskov for the reply.  I suspected as much, but never would have found the time to dig into the topic in detail.  While I was looking for an answer to the underlying cause for the supposed sat. fat/cholesterol connection, I could find nothing.  Odder yet, in papers discussing (in incredibly gory detail) the various aspects of LDL and its putative effects on CHD, there is NO mention of the mechanism by which cholesterol might be raised by diet.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure somebody talks about it somewhere, but I couldn&#8217;t find it (admittedly, I didn&#8217;t look that hard, especially after reading Dr. Ravnskov&#8217;s <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm" rel="nofollow"><br />
&#8220;The Cholesterol Myths&#8221;</a>).  After 50 years, you think some progress would have been made on this front; or, you&#8217;d think the community at large would have put it together that maybe the hypothesis was wrong in the first place.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s going to be very interesting if the research decribed in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061226162143.htm" rel="nofollow"><br />
this article</a> holds water.  I think it would be immensely ironic if low carb made it into the nutritional and legislative mainstream because a direct cause/effect relationship could be established between high carbohydrate intake and increased cholesterol level.  Even more irony to be found if it is realized that high cholesterol wasn&#8217;t the culprit in the first place, but rather CHD was caused by damage do to high blood sugar.</p>
<p>GO BRONCOS!</p>
<p>Dave</p>
<p><em>Hi Dave&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>I&#8217;ve got the Nature paper that the ScienceDaily article discusses, but I haven&#8217;t had time to read it in depth.  When I do, I&#8217;ll probably post on it if it really has merit.  I never trust journalistic interpretations of scientific papers.</em></p>
<p><em>I&#8217;m in an interesting situation.  I have my money on San Francisco +10, but I want the Broncos to win.  So, root for a Bronco win and a SF cover.</em></p>
<p><em>Happy New Year!</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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