<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Karl Popper, metabolic advantage and the C57BL/6 mouse</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/</link>
	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 14:38:34 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
<xhtml:meta xmlns:xhtml="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" name="robots" content="noindex" />
	<item>
		<title>By: 56 â€“ Man v. food, metabolic advantage</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-289689</link>
		<dc:creator>56 â€“ Man v. food, metabolic advantage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 05:54:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-289689</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael Eades has extensive and comprehensive posts on the subject of food metabolism http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl... http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/overfeeding-and-metabolic-advantage/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Eades has extensive and comprehensive posts on the subject of food metabolism <a href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl.." rel="nofollow">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl..</a>. <a href="http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/overfeeding-and-metabolic-advantage/" rel="nofollow">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/metabolism/overfeeding-and-metabolic-advantage/</a> [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cain Neal</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-250702</link>
		<dc:creator>Cain Neal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jun 2011 04:02:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-250702</guid>
		<description>The thing I want to know from a study like this is not just the weights of the mice in question but body composition of the mice as well.  It would be interesting to compare the % body fat and the % muscle weight of the mice being studied.  I suspect the calorie restricted mice have less muscle tone and perhaps a higher body fat percentage than the low carb / high fat mice.  Being that I&#039;ve tried over 15 years a bunch of variations on the calorie restriction diets, I was often dissatisfied that I would lose muscle as a result of extreme calorie restriction.  Sure I&#039;d lose the weight, but my fat percentage wouldn&#039;t change that much or would actually go up.  :-(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The thing I want to know from a study like this is not just the weights of the mice in question but body composition of the mice as well.  It would be interesting to compare the % body fat and the % muscle weight of the mice being studied.  I suspect the calorie restricted mice have less muscle tone and perhaps a higher body fat percentage than the low carb / high fat mice.  Being that I&#8217;ve tried over 15 years a bunch of variations on the calorie restriction diets, I was often dissatisfied that I would lose muscle as a result of extreme calorie restriction.  Sure I&#8217;d lose the weight, but my fat percentage wouldn&#8217;t change that much or would actually go up.  <img src='http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Enza Ferreri</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-250482</link>
		<dc:creator>Enza Ferreri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-250482</guid>
		<description>I found your article really interesting and intelligent. However, I disagree on a few things.

I&#039;m not so sure that Popper would be so happy.

There is a section of your post, &quot;But the laws of thermodynamics DO work the same in all living creatures and in all systems for that matter. So rats or monkeys or mice or armadillos are going to obey the laws of thermodynamics in the same way we humans do. And thermodynamic data we gather from well done animal studies applies to humans just as it does to the animals in question.&quot;, the conclusion of which (the last sentence) does not logically follow from the previous two sentences, has not been independently tested and does not appear testable. Even if it resulted to happened in some case (and I underline &quot;if&quot;), you can&#039;t possibly say that it would be true in all cases: you can only reword it to refer just to that well specified case.

Of course the laws of physics will be the same for all animal species, but different species may apply them differently and make different use of them. That is why the third sentence does not derive logically from the two preceding it.

Think of the law of gravity. It&#039;s the same for all animals, but some animals jump higher or even fly: that shows that, even if a law of physics works entirely in the same way for all species and all animals have to obey it, the way they do it may produce completely different results.

The fact that mice, unlike humans, continue to grow throughout their lives seems to me a good candidate to indicate a difference in that sense. 

In this case in particular, I&#039;m not clear what this study is showing that we didn&#039;t know already from human research.

We knew already, from case studies, randomizes studies and more recently even longitudinal long-term studies of humans, that ketogenic diets produce short-term weight loss, but that the weight is regained after a year or less. Exactly as with all other diets.

Could it be because, at the end of the day, humans can&#039;t keep on ketogenic (as well as other) diets, although the mice did not have a choice?

Or could it ALSO be due to other differences between humans and mice, of which we know nothing yet?

Finally, Popper does not phrase his theory in terms of &quot;valid&quot;, &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad&quot; hypotheses and theories, but &quot;scientific&quot; or &quot;metaphysic (pseudo-scientific)&quot;. It&#039;s an important difference, because you can have a false (so, not valid) scientific hypothesis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your article really interesting and intelligent. However, I disagree on a few things.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure that Popper would be so happy.</p>
<p>There is a section of your post, &#8220;But the laws of thermodynamics DO work the same in all living creatures and in all systems for that matter. So rats or monkeys or mice or armadillos are going to obey the laws of thermodynamics in the same way we humans do. And thermodynamic data we gather from well done animal studies applies to humans just as it does to the animals in question.&#8221;, the conclusion of which (the last sentence) does not logically follow from the previous two sentences, has not been independently tested and does not appear testable. Even if it resulted to happened in some case (and I underline &#8220;if&#8221;), you can&#8217;t possibly say that it would be true in all cases: you can only reword it to refer just to that well specified case.</p>
<p>Of course the laws of physics will be the same for all animal species, but different species may apply them differently and make different use of them. That is why the third sentence does not derive logically from the two preceding it.</p>
<p>Think of the law of gravity. It&#8217;s the same for all animals, but some animals jump higher or even fly: that shows that, even if a law of physics works entirely in the same way for all species and all animals have to obey it, the way they do it may produce completely different results.</p>
<p>The fact that mice, unlike humans, continue to grow throughout their lives seems to me a good candidate to indicate a difference in that sense. </p>
<p>In this case in particular, I&#8217;m not clear what this study is showing that we didn&#8217;t know already from human research.</p>
<p>We knew already, from case studies, randomizes studies and more recently even longitudinal long-term studies of humans, that ketogenic diets produce short-term weight loss, but that the weight is regained after a year or less. Exactly as with all other diets.</p>
<p>Could it be because, at the end of the day, humans can&#8217;t keep on ketogenic (as well as other) diets, although the mice did not have a choice?</p>
<p>Or could it ALSO be due to other differences between humans and mice, of which we know nothing yet?</p>
<p>Finally, Popper does not phrase his theory in terms of &#8220;valid&#8221;, &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad&#8221; hypotheses and theories, but &#8220;scientific&#8221; or &#8220;metaphysic (pseudo-scientific)&#8221;. It&#8217;s an important difference, because you can have a false (so, not valid) scientific hypothesis.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gaining Fat/Inches... &#124; Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum page 4</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-249188</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaining Fat/Inches... &#124; Mark's Daily Apple Health and Fitness Forum page 4</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2011 21:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-249188</guid>
		<description>[...] it&#039;s an intelligent post that is worth reading in its entirety if you are unfamiliar with Popper.  The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Karl Popper, metabolic advantage and the C57BL/6 mouse           Reply With Quote &#160;              + Reply to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] it&#039;s an intelligent post that is worth reading in its entirety if you are unfamiliar with Popper.  The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D. » Karl Popper, metabolic advantage and the C57BL/6 mouse           Reply With Quote &nbsp;              + Reply to [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Low Carb Age &#187; Metabolic Advantage</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-248744</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Carb Age &#187; Metabolic Advantage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 18:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-248744</guid>
		<description>[...] Michael Eades explains it this way:  When two groups of subjects both eat the same number of calories (but provided by diets of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Michael Eades explains it this way:  When two groups of subjects both eat the same number of calories (but provided by diets of [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: fixed gear</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-248153</link>
		<dc:creator>fixed gear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Jan 2011 03:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-248153</guid>
		<description>So in simplest terms - well the simplest I can come up with  ;-) you lose more weight on a ketogenic diet than a high carb diet, NOT because you wildly violate the laws of thermodynamics... but because you run hotter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So in simplest terms &#8211; well the simplest I can come up with  <img src='http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  you lose more weight on a ketogenic diet than a high carb diet, NOT because you wildly violate the laws of thermodynamics&#8230; but because you run hotter.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: George D. Henderson</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-243474</link>
		<dc:creator>George D. Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 23:02:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-243474</guid>
		<description>Not all digestive enzymes are denatured by stomach acid, because parts of the intestine also digest at acid pH, so enzymes intended for these processes will survive the stomach better. And observation, available to anyone, shows that protease digestive enzymes such as papain or bromelain work even in chewable tablets.
I believe the difference is that insulin and cell-specific lipase were evolved to work at blood pH so have none of the resistance to stomach acid that digestive enzymes do.
Also, digestive enzymes may be denatured by extremes of pH, but they can often revert to the active form again once the pH is right for them; this is one mechanism for controlling digestion so that enzymes work in the right order, and nutrients appear in the right sites for absorption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not all digestive enzymes are denatured by stomach acid, because parts of the intestine also digest at acid pH, so enzymes intended for these processes will survive the stomach better. And observation, available to anyone, shows that protease digestive enzymes such as papain or bromelain work even in chewable tablets.<br />
I believe the difference is that insulin and cell-specific lipase were evolved to work at blood pH so have none of the resistance to stomach acid that digestive enzymes do.<br />
Also, digestive enzymes may be denatured by extremes of pH, but they can often revert to the active form again once the pH is right for them; this is one mechanism for controlling digestion so that enzymes work in the right order, and nutrients appear in the right sites for absorption.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AC Fat Loss Bible critique part II &#124; The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-243427</link>
		<dc:creator>AC Fat Loss Bible critique part II &#124; The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 01:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-243427</guid>
		<description>[...] wrote a long post a couple of years ago on Sir Karl Popper and the metabolic advantage.  Popper set the standards by which hypotheses should be structured.  A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] wrote a long post a couple of years ago on Sir Karl Popper and the metabolic advantage.  Popper set the standards by which hypotheses should be structured.  A [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: NU's Quest for Carnivory! - Page 114 - Myprotein Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-243021</link>
		<dc:creator>NU's Quest for Carnivory! - Page 114 - Myprotein Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-243021</guid>
		<description>[...] example of Eades&#039; lack of critical thinking skills:  Karl Popper, metabolic advantage and the C57BL/6 mouse &#124; The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.  Finding an instance where there might appear to be a metabolic advantage in rodents cannot be [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] example of Eades&#39; lack of critical thinking skills:  Karl Popper, metabolic advantage and the C57BL/6 mouse | The Blog of Michael R. Eades, M.D.  Finding an instance where there might appear to be a metabolic advantage in rodents cannot be [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tuba</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/karl-popper-metabolic-advantage-and-the-c57bl6-mouse/#comment-242280</link>
		<dc:creator>Tuba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 22:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/?p=957#comment-242280</guid>
		<description>Hello, 
I&#039;m a research assistant of neurology department of 19 May&#305;s University Medical Faculty in Samsun-TURKEY.
I need a number of C57BL6 mouse/mice for my dissertation. Because, I will use this animals to create a Multipl Sclerosis model and I will investigate the protective and improvement effect of a certain substance on this models. But I can&#039;t find this kind of animal (C57BL6 mice/mouse) in Turkey. &#304;f I can find, I will  apply for financial support to my Universty Project Support Committee and I hope will pay for them. 
Can you help me about how can I find this mouse/mice or you can instruct for me?
I appreciate you for it. Thank you

&lt;em&gt;I have no idea how to obtain these mice.  Perhaps through a laboratory supply house.  Good luck.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
I&#8217;m a research assistant of neurology department of 19 May&#305;s University Medical Faculty in Samsun-TURKEY.<br />
I need a number of C57BL6 mouse/mice for my dissertation. Because, I will use this animals to create a Multipl Sclerosis model and I will investigate the protective and improvement effect of a certain substance on this models. But I can&#8217;t find this kind of animal (C57BL6 mice/mouse) in Turkey. &#304;f I can find, I will  apply for financial support to my Universty Project Support Committee and I hope will pay for them.<br />
Can you help me about how can I find this mouse/mice or you can instruct for me?<br />
I appreciate you for it. Thank you</p>
<p><em>I have no idea how to obtain these mice.  Perhaps through a laboratory supply house.  Good luck.</em></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

