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	<title>Comments on: Framingham follies</title>
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	<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/</link>
	<description>A critical look at nutritional science and anything else that strikes my fancy.</description>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-108073</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 09:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For me, there is a definite correlation between dietary cholesterol consumption and serum cholesterol. When I stopped consuming cholesterol entirely, my serum cholesterol dropped from 240 to 180 in two months.  

Note also the findings of The China Study. In rural China, the animal protein intake was 7g/day while the American intake was 70g/day. The serum cholesterol ranges were 127 in China and 215 in America. At that time the death rate from CHD was 17 times greater in American men than rural Chinese men. Maybe that&#039;s worth trying to understand.

My guess is that, in the Framingham study, very few people ate plant based, whole foods, low protein, zero cholesterol diets.

There is no question that reducing cholesterol in the diet can reduce cholesterol in the blood all other things being equal.  But so what?  Show me the studies showing that lowering cholesterol increases lifespan.

&lt;em&gt;Rural Chinese worked much physically harder than American men and consumed significantly fewer calories.  But, despite all that, do rural Chinese live longer than Americans?  The answer is no.  Statins reduce the risk for heart disease but they simply replace that risk with something else because people who take statins don&#039;t live longer than those who don&#039;t.  You&#039;ve got to be careful in looking at evidence like this because what you want is to decrease all-cause mortality, i.e., have people live longer, not simply trade one risk factor for another.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, there is a definite correlation between dietary cholesterol consumption and serum cholesterol. When I stopped consuming cholesterol entirely, my serum cholesterol dropped from 240 to 180 in two months.  </p>
<p>Note also the findings of The China Study. In rural China, the animal protein intake was 7g/day while the American intake was 70g/day. The serum cholesterol ranges were 127 in China and 215 in America. At that time the death rate from CHD was 17 times greater in American men than rural Chinese men. Maybe that&#8217;s worth trying to understand.</p>
<p>My guess is that, in the Framingham study, very few people ate plant based, whole foods, low protein, zero cholesterol diets.</p>
<p>There is no question that reducing cholesterol in the diet can reduce cholesterol in the blood all other things being equal.  But so what?  Show me the studies showing that lowering cholesterol increases lifespan.</p>
<p><em>Rural Chinese worked much physically harder than American men and consumed significantly fewer calories.  But, despite all that, do rural Chinese live longer than Americans?  The answer is no.  Statins reduce the risk for heart disease but they simply replace that risk with something else because people who take statins don&#8217;t live longer than those who don&#8217;t.  You&#8217;ve got to be careful in looking at evidence like this because what you want is to decrease all-cause mortality, i.e., have people live longer, not simply trade one risk factor for another.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Richard mathes</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-86828</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard mathes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 09:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-86828</guid>
		<description>Did the Framingham study look at type of fats?  If not, then it is certainly true that no correlation could exist between  undifferentiated &quot;fat&quot;  since some types of fat have positive correlations and some negative to blood cholesterol.
 Trans fats have very different relationship to cholesterol build-up than  polyunsaturated fat.

So while the results were not &quot;expected&quot; - I am not sure they understood that much about types of fats to expect anything that would be correct.

There have been other studies besides Framingham that show no relationship of &quot;fat consumption&quot; to blood cholesterol - but there are studies on specific types of fats that do show positive correlations - that is, larger amounts correlate to higher, or lower, blood cholesterol, depending upon the type of fat.
The current simplistic rules, however, might be ignoring beneficial foods with saturated fats - such as whole, raw milk.    And maybe our current classification of four types of fats is not complete.

&lt;em&gt;As I recall (I didn&#039;t go back and pull the papers) Framingham looked at saturated and unsaturated fats - not the specific fatty acids.

Cheers--

MRE&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did the Framingham study look at type of fats?  If not, then it is certainly true that no correlation could exist between  undifferentiated &#8220;fat&#8221;  since some types of fat have positive correlations and some negative to blood cholesterol.<br />
 Trans fats have very different relationship to cholesterol build-up than  polyunsaturated fat.</p>
<p>So while the results were not &#8220;expected&#8221; &#8211; I am not sure they understood that much about types of fats to expect anything that would be correct.</p>
<p>There have been other studies besides Framingham that show no relationship of &#8220;fat consumption&#8221; to blood cholesterol &#8211; but there are studies on specific types of fats that do show positive correlations &#8211; that is, larger amounts correlate to higher, or lower, blood cholesterol, depending upon the type of fat.<br />
The current simplistic rules, however, might be ignoring beneficial foods with saturated fats &#8211; such as whole, raw milk.    And maybe our current classification of four types of fats is not complete.</p>
<p><em>As I recall (I didn&#8217;t go back and pull the papers) Framingham looked at saturated and unsaturated fats &#8211; not the specific fatty acids.</p>
<p>Cheers&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</em></p>
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		<title>By: Tim Sorg</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-72990</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Sorg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 17:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-72990</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s utterly amazing and frustrating that people fall for whatever the television tells them.  I have printed off lots of the truth about cholesterol and cannot even convince my own mother how flawed all the arguments about choloesterol leading to heart disease are.

It is amusing that so many people will accuse the government and businesses of lying about this and that but when it comes to cholesterol (and radon, Splenda ..other pet peeves of mine), suddenly the news they get is accurate. 

My own cholesterol is considered high by the mainstream.  Ha!, I say.  I exercise, eat a variety of foods in moderation, don&#039;t smoke, and drink a little.  I&#039;m not losing any sleep over my cholesterol numbers.  I hate to see my eat her Lipitor poison to lower her numbers which is a total waste of money...and of health, too.

&lt;em&gt;It is amusing that people assume the government is either wrong or is out and out lying about virtually everything except for nutritional issues.  On nutritional issues they say that it must be so because the government says it&#039;s so.

Cheers--

MRE&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s utterly amazing and frustrating that people fall for whatever the television tells them.  I have printed off lots of the truth about cholesterol and cannot even convince my own mother how flawed all the arguments about choloesterol leading to heart disease are.</p>
<p>It is amusing that so many people will accuse the government and businesses of lying about this and that but when it comes to cholesterol (and radon, Splenda ..other pet peeves of mine), suddenly the news they get is accurate. </p>
<p>My own cholesterol is considered high by the mainstream.  Ha!, I say.  I exercise, eat a variety of foods in moderation, don&#8217;t smoke, and drink a little.  I&#8217;m not losing any sleep over my cholesterol numbers.  I hate to see my eat her Lipitor poison to lower her numbers which is a total waste of money&#8230;and of health, too.</p>
<p><em>It is amusing that people assume the government is either wrong or is out and out lying about virtually everything except for nutritional issues.  On nutritional issues they say that it must be so because the government says it&#8217;s so.</p>
<p>Cheers&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</em></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Cable</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-27232</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Cable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 09:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-27232</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much... :) herewith the transcription...
&lt;blockquote&gt;Page 36 The News, Framingham-Natick, Friday October 30th 1970

Findings of the Framingham Diet Study Clarified

Framingham - Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet study group, &quot;it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol&quot; Dr William B Kannel, director of the Framingham heart study has stated.

&quot;It has been repeatedly demonstrated that blood cholesterol levels can be altered by changes in diet; and dietary alteration is still the most acceptable form of medical management for persons with elevated blood lipids&quot; Dr. Kannel said.

&quot;The available evidence indicates that coronary heart disease appears to result from a combination of contributing factors and that no single factor  capable of producing the disease by itself has been convincingly demonstrated&quot;, he stated.

&quot;However&quot;, he added, &quot;if any common denominator does exist through which such multiple, inter-related factors operate to produce athersclerotic lesions, then some aberration of blood lipids is certainly the chief contender. It appears to be the thread running through the web of circumstances leading to coronary heart disease.&quot;

A number of blood lipids have been implicated in coronary disease, Dr. Kannel Said, but none more substantially than the blood cholesterol content. That blood cholesterol is somehow intimately related to coronary atherosclerosis is no longer subject to reasonable doubt because of massive evidence that:
- diseases associated with hypercholesterolemia are also associated with premature atherosclerosis.
- persons with inborn errors of cholesterol metabolism develop extremely precocious atherosclerotic disease
- persons with high cholesterol levels in epidemiological study populations have been observed to develop coronary heart disease with greater frequency than those with low cholesterol levels, the risk being proportional to the degree of elevation of the blood cholesterol.
- countries with high average cholesterol values among their citizens report high coronary death rates; those with low average cholesterol values report low coronary death rates.
- atherosclerotic deposits are usually loaded with cholesterol and the movement of cholesterol from the blood into the deposits has been amply demonstrated.
- producing high cholesterol values in animals produces atherosclerotic deposits that can be made to regress by lowering blood cholesterol.

&quot;Moreover&quot;, Dr Kannel said, &quot;the evidence incriminating diet in producing elevated serum cholesterol is quite substantial; for example,
- areas in which the population exhibits high cholesterol values characteristically have diets different from those where low values are characteristic.
- migrants from &#039;low cholesterol&#039; areas to &#039;high cholesterol&#039; areas are often subsequently found to have higher cholesterol levels and to have changed their dietary pattern.
- manipulation of diet can alter serum cholesterol values in a predictable fashion in humans and, in animals, can produce atherosclerotic deposits or cause established deposits to regress&quot;.

&quot;The reason for the high cholesterol values frequently found in free-living population groups is not always apparent and the details of the mechanism involved, the role of inheritance, regulatory mechanisms, and what constitutes the &#039;normal range&#039; of cholesterol values are not completely understood.&quot; Dr Kannel said.

&lt;em&gt;Hi Jeff--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Thanks for the transcription.  I appreciate it.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much&#8230; <img src='http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  herewith the transcription&#8230;</p>
<blockquote><p>Page 36 The News, Framingham-Natick, Friday October 30th 1970</p>
<p>Findings of the Framingham Diet Study Clarified</p>
<p>Framingham &#8211; Although there is no discernible relationship between reported diet intake and serum cholesterol levels in the Framingham Diet study group, &#8220;it is incorrect to interpret this finding to mean that diet has no connection with blood cholesterol&#8221; Dr William B Kannel, director of the Framingham heart study has stated.</p>
<p>&#8220;It has been repeatedly demonstrated that blood cholesterol levels can be altered by changes in diet; and dietary alteration is still the most acceptable form of medical management for persons with elevated blood lipids&#8221; Dr. Kannel said.</p>
<p>&#8220;The available evidence indicates that coronary heart disease appears to result from a combination of contributing factors and that no single factor  capable of producing the disease by itself has been convincingly demonstrated&#8221;, he stated.</p>
<p>&#8220;However&#8221;, he added, &#8220;if any common denominator does exist through which such multiple, inter-related factors operate to produce athersclerotic lesions, then some aberration of blood lipids is certainly the chief contender. It appears to be the thread running through the web of circumstances leading to coronary heart disease.&#8221;</p>
<p>A number of blood lipids have been implicated in coronary disease, Dr. Kannel Said, but none more substantially than the blood cholesterol content. That blood cholesterol is somehow intimately related to coronary atherosclerosis is no longer subject to reasonable doubt because of massive evidence that:<br />
- diseases associated with hypercholesterolemia are also associated with premature atherosclerosis.<br />
- persons with inborn errors of cholesterol metabolism develop extremely precocious atherosclerotic disease<br />
- persons with high cholesterol levels in epidemiological study populations have been observed to develop coronary heart disease with greater frequency than those with low cholesterol levels, the risk being proportional to the degree of elevation of the blood cholesterol.<br />
- countries with high average cholesterol values among their citizens report high coronary death rates; those with low average cholesterol values report low coronary death rates.<br />
- atherosclerotic deposits are usually loaded with cholesterol and the movement of cholesterol from the blood into the deposits has been amply demonstrated.<br />
- producing high cholesterol values in animals produces atherosclerotic deposits that can be made to regress by lowering blood cholesterol.</p>
<p>&#8220;Moreover&#8221;, Dr Kannel said, &#8220;the evidence incriminating diet in producing elevated serum cholesterol is quite substantial; for example,<br />
- areas in which the population exhibits high cholesterol values characteristically have diets different from those where low values are characteristic.<br />
- migrants from &#8216;low cholesterol&#8217; areas to &#8216;high cholesterol&#8217; areas are often subsequently found to have higher cholesterol levels and to have changed their dietary pattern.<br />
- manipulation of diet can alter serum cholesterol values in a predictable fashion in humans and, in animals, can produce atherosclerotic deposits or cause established deposits to regress&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;The reason for the high cholesterol values frequently found in free-living population groups is not always apparent and the details of the mechanism involved, the role of inheritance, regulatory mechanisms, and what constitutes the &#8216;normal range&#8217; of cholesterol values are not completely understood.&#8221; Dr Kannel said.</p>
<p><em>Hi Jeff&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>Thanks for the transcription.  I appreciate it.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jeff Cable</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-25776</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Cable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Apr 2007 00:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-25776</guid>
		<description>Hi Dr Eades. I am late to the party and wondered if I could have your permission to link to this fine article from my own web-site. I have also transcribed the newspaper clipping and wondered if you would you like a copy?

Kind regards,
Jeff Cable

&lt;em&gt;Hi Jeff--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Be my guest.  Link to any of the posts you would like.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Cheers--&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;MRE &lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dr Eades. I am late to the party and wondered if I could have your permission to link to this fine article from my own web-site. I have also transcribed the newspaper clipping and wondered if you would you like a copy?</p>
<p>Kind regards,<br />
Jeff Cable</p>
<p><em>Hi Jeff&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>Be my guest.  Link to any of the posts you would like.</em></p>
<p><em>Cheers&#8211;</em></p>
<p><em>MRE </em></p>
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		<title>By: antnagir</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-947</link>
		<dc:creator>antnagir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Oct 2006 00:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-947</guid>
		<description>Correct me if I&#039;m wrong but I noticed that all English speaking countries seems to have the same problem with their official perception of intake saturated fat being related to their heart problems, and official recommendations are the same too eg. Malaysia with about half the populations considered fat.

Hi Antnagir--

That appears to be the case.

Best--

MRE
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong but I noticed that all English speaking countries seems to have the same problem with their official perception of intake saturated fat being related to their heart problems, and official recommendations are the same too eg. Malaysia with about half the populations considered fat.</p>
<p>Hi Antnagir&#8211;</p>
<p>That appears to be the case.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: Razwell</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Razwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Sep 2006 17:57:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-946</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dr Eades


I forgot to mention the 26 Prospective Trials regarding this. They also found NO  benefit to saturated fat restriction.  They are also all listed in Colpo&#039;s book.


You should team up with Dr Uffe Ravnskov and Anthony Colpo to form a strong coalition  in exposing this sham.

Hi Razwell--

I guess that in a way we are teamed up.  There ain&#039;t all that many of us that will openly say that there is nothing wrong with saturated fat.  Mary Enig is another.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dr Eades</p>
<p>I forgot to mention the 26 Prospective Trials regarding this. They also found NO  benefit to saturated fat restriction.  They are also all listed in Colpo&#8217;s book.</p>
<p>You should team up with Dr Uffe Ravnskov and Anthony Colpo to form a strong coalition  in exposing this sham.</p>
<p>Hi Razwell&#8211;</p>
<p>I guess that in a way we are teamed up.  There ain&#8217;t all that many of us that will openly say that there is nothing wrong with saturated fat.  Mary Enig is another.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-945</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Sep 2006 07:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-945</guid>
		<description>Simply amazing! Framingham has become the gift that keeps on giving. Someone needs to put this story into a book written for the general public. It is an astounding example of the manipulation of science for the sake of pride, prejudice and cold hard cash.

Richard Morris
breadandmoney.com 

Hi Richard--

The &#039;gift&#039; that keeps on giving indeed.  What&#039;s even more astounding than this little booklet are the Framingham guidelines for avoiding heart disease.  Many of the recommendations are not borne out by their own studies.  I plan to post on this issue again later and really get into the guidelines part.

BTW, I love your site.  Great job on the weight loss!

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simply amazing! Framingham has become the gift that keeps on giving. Someone needs to put this story into a book written for the general public. It is an astounding example of the manipulation of science for the sake of pride, prejudice and cold hard cash.</p>
<p>Richard Morris<br />
breadandmoney.com </p>
<p>Hi Richard&#8211;</p>
<p>The &#8216;gift&#8217; that keeps on giving indeed.  What&#8217;s even more astounding than this little booklet are the Framingham guidelines for avoiding heart disease.  Many of the recommendations are not borne out by their own studies.  I plan to post on this issue again later and really get into the guidelines part.</p>
<p>BTW, I love your site.  Great job on the weight loss!</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: Razwell</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-944</link>
		<dc:creator>Razwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 18:14:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-944</guid>
		<description>Clinical Dietary Intervention Trials have COMPLETELT FAILED  to lower the incidence of coronary heart disease mortality or overall mortality by the use of saturated fat restriction. 

There are 18 of them to date. All printed out in Colpo&#039;s book &quot;The Great Cholesterol Con&quot;, results and all.

Hi Razwell--

There are probably more than those 18.  And all fail to &#039;prove&#039; a correlation.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clinical Dietary Intervention Trials have COMPLETELT FAILED  to lower the incidence of coronary heart disease mortality or overall mortality by the use of saturated fat restriction. </p>
<p>There are 18 of them to date. All printed out in Colpo&#8217;s book &#8220;The Great Cholesterol Con&#8221;, results and all.</p>
<p>Hi Razwell&#8211;</p>
<p>There are probably more than those 18.  And all fail to &#8216;prove&#8217; a correlation.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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		<title>By: kevin dill</title>
		<link>http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cardiovascular-disease/framingham-follies/#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin dill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 12:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike_blog/?p=285#comment-943</guid>
		<description>Well doc, Ive read most of the reports issued  be the folks doing the Framingham study, I&#039;ve never seen them state that SFA or cholesterol was causative in anything, just that there was a correlation.  Its their media and bandwagon jumpers who twist correlation into causation.  Anecdotally,  If you were to look at folks not eating a carb controlled diet,  the folks who eat the most SFA and dietary Chol, would also be most likely to eat the most sugar, TransFA, the fewest vegetables, and exercise the least. 

Hi Kevin--

In this case it is the head of the Fram study who is denying the correlation.  Or at least saying that it is meaningless.

You are absolutely right about the people eating non-carb controlled diets.  Most eat a lot of sat fat, a lot of trans fat, a lot of sugar, and just a lot in general.

Best--

MRE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well doc, Ive read most of the reports issued  be the folks doing the Framingham study, I&#8217;ve never seen them state that SFA or cholesterol was causative in anything, just that there was a correlation.  Its their media and bandwagon jumpers who twist correlation into causation.  Anecdotally,  If you were to look at folks not eating a carb controlled diet,  the folks who eat the most SFA and dietary Chol, would also be most likely to eat the most sugar, TransFA, the fewest vegetables, and exercise the least. </p>
<p>Hi Kevin&#8211;</p>
<p>In this case it is the head of the Fram study who is denying the correlation.  Or at least saying that it is meaningless.</p>
<p>You are absolutely right about the people eating non-carb controlled diets.  Most eat a lot of sat fat, a lot of trans fat, a lot of sugar, and just a lot in general.</p>
<p>Best&#8211;</p>
<p>MRE</p>
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